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Author Topic: Inchitator - External Tibias - Dr. Xia - 2009 - Inchitator's Beijing escapade...  (Read 27519 times)
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jack0life
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« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2010, 09:53:49 AM »

I can answer this for you.
The people in Beijing are pretty generous with the length of time you can stay if you run into complications.
I meet a guy thats been there for 6 months already and gotten only 4cm.
They are letting him stay until he get the 7-8cm but he has to pay for the food.
Thats pretty fair especially the food isn't that much if you don't keep ordering western food.
Only can get by 25-30rmb each day if you order from the Chinese menu.
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Every cm was TORTURE.
Went from 158cm to 166cm in Beijing !!
Inchitator
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« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2010, 01:40:00 PM »

I suppose they reduced the left leg by 0. 5 cm because you gained more on that leg from pin bending than on the right leg? It would have been nice for them to have mentioned that to you at some point.  "Oh, by the way, that last week of clicking you suffered through? We're just going to get rid of everything you gained doing that.  But don't worry, if your bones fuse again, we'll be here to crack them apart. "

The new 4-clicks-a-day strategy doesn't add up in my book.  Foreigners' bones are fusing repeatedly? They're lengthening too fast! I could completely understand it if they lowered you down to 4-a-day when you began having muscular problems (or even when you reached that 4/5 cm grey zone where most begin to have persistent stretching and movement issues), but responding to bone fusion by having you lengthen LESS? 1 + 1 = The surgeons are crack-crack addicts.

I thought that degrees of ballerina foot, knee bending and other minor complications were almost unavoidable when someone lengthens 7 cm or more.  Going at 2 less clicks per day is still not going to prolong the lengthening period enough so that the muscular tissue can entirely keep up with the bone, so I'm not sure I like the idea of them making patients spend 33% more time lengthening due to a shaky and unproven hypothesis. 

Their reason for reducing the length by 0.5 cm is that the top end of the Fibula moved lower than it should be. So they reduced the tibia by 0.5 cm so that the top end of the fibula can be at the right level and then they used the new pin to lock it there. In terms of going at 2 less clicks per day, based on the experiences of other patients, it can make a huge difference to the amount of stretching pains you feel, especially if you are going for 6+ cm. However, then you have the problem of bone fusion (which would have probably not existed if one was doing 4 turns with a single cut). However, I am not completely against the doctors trying the double cut. If they don't take the initiatives to look for better ways of doing things, this technology would never advance.

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So you guys are saying we still have the right to refuse the latter in favour of the former? I'd sure hope so, otherwise it'll be Armenia without a doubt.

I wasn't given the choice and a lot of other patients weren't. However, I have heard a couple of patients, who were given the option of going for a single cut. If you really want to avoid the double cut, you might be able to negotiate. A single cut is also a better option, if you intend to go back home for a while during the lengthening phase.

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Hi Inchitator,

I'm really digging your journal.  Thanks for actually taking the time to write one for us to get a glimpse into this process.  Although I've already gone through a few journals, namely MMT's, jack0life's, and Shootingfor6's, I still couldn't figure one thing out. 

I know that the rate for the procedure would be around 22k to 25k USD based on jack0life's assessment through negotiations.  But, would this rate take into account the possible extra stay due to poor bone growth or other factors? Say you're slated to stay 4 months and payed 25k USD.  But due to poor bone growth, you would need to stay an extra month.  Would this be inclusive to the 25k contract, or would you have to pay extra out of your own pocket?

Thanks in advance.

I know several patients who have been here for well over 4 months. None of them have mentioned paying extra for the rooms after the 4 month period, although they all paid for the food. These people well either here because of less than avg. bone growth, or because they were going for 5cm+ which would require more than 4 months anyways.



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jj
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« Reply #82 on: February 21, 2010, 03:23:05 PM »

Hi Inchy

I believe our Italian friend paid some extra (I think he was here between 5 and 6 months).  Not entirely sure.
I was offered single cut but went for the double.  I guess if I hadn't my lengthening would have taken a few weeks longer but I wouldn't now but going through the mind-bending pain of standing against a wall for an hour each day to correct my ballerina foot.  So you win some you lose some.
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vanhlj
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« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2010, 02:17:28 PM »

Sorry but what happened to the rest of this journal? I only see 5 pages and things were just starting to get interesting and very informative.
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LeeS
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« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2010, 05:24:43 PM »

Hi Inchitator,

How are you getting on? Any chance of getting an up date from you? I am the dark skinned guy whom you were kind enough to chat to a few months ago (on 18th January to be precise) when i had a consultation, you were in the 'twin' room with an American. 

Anyway I hope all is well with you and that you have made good progress.
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Inchitator
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« Reply #85 on: June 07, 2010, 10:28:22 AM »

Day 71 - 186

Hi Guys, Sorry for not being able to post any updates. I got myself embroiled in a host of activities to keep myself busy, such as learning the language, watching lots of movies and some other stuff. But its been a loooooooooooooooooooooong Journey and I am far from being at the end.

I will try to carry on from where I left and try and summarise my experience so far.


WARNING:
Tramadol has a serious effect on one's Spelling & Grammer, so please Excuse me.

After my second surgery to break my fused bones, I had two more of them at regular intervals, one on the right fibula and another one on the left fibula. I actually quite enjoyed these mini surgeries as I got plenty of attention from the nurses right after these surgeries. After one of these surgeries I came back with an oxygen tank  right next to me pumping oxygen into my system, that was quite a surprise. But the third one was the best, as soon as I came back from the surgery, I could not stop laughing. I had no clue why I was laughing but I kept on laughing for even the most stupid things. I don't know if I was somehow given Nitrous Oxide (Laughing Gas) or if I was just high on Anesthetics, but I enjoyed it thoroughly. I even said a few things to one of the nurses, which I did not remember later, but things were never the same between us after that Tongue .


During this time, we had regular Sunday Evening parties that were good fun. Most foreign patients and some Chinese girls participated. I guess we all looked forward to them every sunday (The parties not the girls...OK..maybe both). However after about 4 months, I started getting really bored of the Hospital environment and I knew this thing would still take ages, so the only way to rejuvenate myself was a "change of environment". This along with the ever falling quality of service (The service level at the hospital drops the longer you stay there) prompted me to move to a Hotel. Another British patient decided to move as well, as he too was bored of the hospital. We both went to check out a hotel close by and decided to move the next day. The international coordinator was very helpful and even recommended the hotel. However, just the night before we were about to move, I was told they were not allowing the other patient to go because of medical reasons (Although it was more because of political reasons).

I decided to go ahead by myself and it turned out to be a very good decision. I had a very good time for the next 6 weeks at the hotel, as I had the whole room to myself and I could do soooo much more, watch TV, listen to loud music and not worry about an ARMY of cleaners barging into my room first thing in the morning, or the maid opening the door when I am in the middle of taking a pee in my pee pot. AND for the people running the rumour mills, No...I wasn't F*****G Chinese wh***s there. This has nothing to do with the quality of Chinese Wh**es (I am sure they are among the best on the business) but because I would feel embarrassed doing it with the frames on. Besides that if there was a Hidden cam in the hotel room it would turn out to be the biggest Youtube Hit Ever - "Metal Man Fucks Chinese Wh**e", I am not ready for Stardom yet (There are lots of high quality hidden cams available on ebay that come from China, in case you are interested).
On another note, I went to the see the doctors every week. The maid rolled my wheelchair to the hospital for a fee. My British friend also moved to the Hotel after a while (In a different room) and like me, he too felt it was a great move.

I should mention that the biggest downside to moving to the hotel was the food. Their menu was in Chinese and was very limited, so I was ordering McDonald's, KFC and Pizza Hut every day. The quality of food and the limited choice of takeaway menu at these chains was also pretty disappointing. However the hotel staff was pretty helpful.

(Note: I had to face a lot of resistance before moving out of the hospital, and had to sign papers saying that I was not the responsibility of the hospital anymore as I was leaving.)

At around the 6.5 cm mark, my duty doctor recommended that I should stop at 7 cm as my muscles looked very tight. My calf area was lierally rock. However, my goal was 8 cm and I was in no mood to compromise on that, especially given that I wasn't in the slightest of pain. I carried on lengthening and speeded up to 6 clicks during the last cm or so and then on to 7-8 clicks during the last .4 cm. I ended up with 8.3 cm and lots of knee bending, especially severe on my left leg. I also had pretty bad ballerina on my left foot and strangely enough, I didn't have the slightest of Ballerina on my right. This was really strange considering that Ballerina started setting in on my left foot at around the 5.5 cm mark.

Here are the numbers for the Analytically driven:

Total Gain:         8.3 Cm
Total Turned:       11 Cm on left and 10.3 on Right.
Total Loss:         2.7 Cm on Left and 2 cm on right (Yes thats a Loss Rate of 25% and 19% respectively....HIGH, HIGH, HIGH)
Total Time in Lengthening Phase: 130 Days (4.3 Months)

After i finished lengthening, my doctor said, it could take up to 2 months for my knee bending to go away. I had seen other patients fix theirs in 3-4 weeks, so I was determined to surprise him. I started sandbagging 6-7 hours a day and was seeing results quickly. But then tragedy struck. Just one week after I finished lengthening, it was time for my next challenge. All of a sudden, I started having severe stomach pain, which did not stop for 2 straight days and my condition got worse with time, with related stomach problems and vomiting. I was taken to a military hospital for a checkup (Not the LL Hospital). I had an ultrasound there and some other tests and i was told that I most probably have "Appendicitis". This was the last thing I wanted. They said instead of going for a surgery, they would give me a course of antibiotics through IV for 6 days and see if that works. This meant, I had to go to this military hospital twice a day for 6 days, just to get my IV's. This was extremely annoying and I was completely put off my sandbagging routine. It was also costly, as I had to pay the driver everyday, along with the cost of the millions of medicines I had to buy. This whole process was extremely difficult for me, because of the language problem. The doctors did not speak English and hence, I had to rely on translations over the phone. I never had a full understanding of the problems I was facing.

At the end of the IV treatment, I was feeling much better and most of the pain was gone, however by this time, I had already made up my mind to go back home, as I knew the knee bending could still take a while and I also wanted to get a second opinion from the doctor back home about the appendicitis problem and the thought of home food sealed the decision. I originally planned to go back for 3 weeks, but extended my stay as my knee bending was taking time to fix and I also had some visa issues. I was planning to fly back last Monday but will now fly on Wednesday and will be back in China this Thursday. As of the now, this is the situation:

1. Its now been 6.5 weeks, since I stopped lengthening.
2. My ballerina foot is nearly gone, but my tendon is still really stretched and this could take another 15 days or so at least.
3. I have X-Leg which looks pretty severe to me, so this could take another 14 days.
4. I still have knee bending, especially on the left leg, however it is very minor now. When I wake up in the morning, it looks pretty bad, however, after 15 minutes of stretching my legs are flat and all the rings on my frames touch the bed. However, I would not be able to surprise my duty doctor as the process would at least take 2 months, if not longer, before the frames are taken off.

Despite things taking longer than they should, I would like to highlight, that a lot of people told me that the lengthening pains get worse, once you get past the 5 cm mark, and then 6, and they get unbearable at 7 to 8, but at no point during the lengthening phase, did I get any sort of pain that would cause any serious discomfort (other than the 3 or 4 days at various points evenly spread throughout the Leng. phase). The only pains I had were due to sandbagging (which I marginalised with Tramadols). The only reason, I took 1 tramadol before going to bed was, so that I could get to sleep and sleep well. However, this is not to say that you will not have any pains, as I have met patients who have had pains even around 3-4 cm mark. There are also patients, who have mentioned they have hardly had any pains during the lengthening phase. Personally, I believe the pain associated with this surgery is overrated and the bigger challenge is the boredom, surroundings and the food.

Cheers
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galaxystar
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« Reply #86 on: June 07, 2010, 01:42:21 PM »

Really appreciate the update Inchiator, and it's good to hear that youre still hanging in there.
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Dan J
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« Reply #87 on: June 07, 2010, 03:01:24 PM »

Great to hear an update on this diary mate.  It's very interesting to read, just keep going, one day at a time.  :)
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jailair
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« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2010, 03:10:28 PM »

fantastic Smiley
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« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2010, 03:30:42 PM »

Quote from: Inchitator link=topic=2971. msg37480#msg37480 date=1275906502

Here are the numbers for the Analytically driven:

Total Gain:         8. 3 Cm
Total Turned:       11 Cm on left and 10. 3 on Right.
Total Loss:         2. 7 Cm on Left and 2 cm on right (Yes thats a Loss Rate of 25% and 19% respectively. . . . HIGH, HIGH, HIGH)
Total Time in Lengthening Phase: 130 Days (4. 3 Months)

Hi Inchitator

Nice entry.   I just have a quick question:

I'm actually a little confused by what you said about having surgery to separate the fused bones.   I've heard of patients having "good" bone growth, yet they didn't have problems with bone fusing.   Does this mean that your bones were hardening too quickly to allow for lengthening? 

I'm also curious:  How was the loss rate so high?  Does it have to do with the excessive amount of turns (i. e. , more than 6 turns daily) you were doing necessitated by your good bone growth?  Is a high loss rate common among those patients whose bone growth is "too" good? 


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Inchitator
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« Reply #90 on: June 07, 2010, 05:32:52 PM »

Hi Inchitator

Nice entry.   I just have a quick question:

I'm actually a little confused by what you said about having surgery to separate the fused bones.   I've heard of patients having "good" bone growth, yet they didn't have problems with bone fusing.   Does this mean that your bones were hardening too quickly to allow for lengthening? 

I'm also curious:  How was the loss rate so high?  Does it have to do with the excessive amount of turns (i. e. , more than 6 turns daily) you were doing necessitated by your good bone growth?  Is a high loss rate common among those patients whose bone growth is "too" good? 


You are correct. Very few patients have had problems with Bones fusing. I am only aware one more patient who has had problems with fused bones (Shootingfor6 from these forums). Its just a coincidence that we both have diaries, so the problem seems a lot more prevalent than it actually is. In my case, 3 out of 4 times, it was my fibula that fused rather than the tibia. As you only get one cut on the fibula, it would have happened even with a single cut.

I am not sure, why my loss rate is so high, I know a couple of other patients who lost about 20%, but I also know some others that hardly lost anything. When I asked my doctors, they said 20% is average loss, however this doesn't seem to be the case with a lot of other patients. There is a possibility that it could be due to the fact that I walked a lot, but doctors disagree with this theory (Theory = Walking Causes Pin pending -> Pin bending leads to loss). I also know another patient who did not walk much but had a high loss rate, so its really difficult to pinpoint the reason.

Yes, there is certainly a direct relationship between excessive turning and higher loss rates. I along with a couple of patients have observed this. Every time I turned at 6, I lost more, when I turned at 4, I did not lose much. I only did more than 6 turns for the last 10 days or so, but during this period my loss rate was certainly higher.
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Inchitator
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« Reply #91 on: June 07, 2010, 05:33:27 PM »

Really appreciate the update Inchiator, and it's good to hear that youre still hanging in there.

Thanks Mate.

Great to hear an update on this diary mate.  It's very interesting to read, just keep going, one day at a time.  Smiley

Thanks Dan. Cant wait to get back to China and get these frames off and catch up with the guys there.

fantastic Smiley

Cheers

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jack0life
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« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2010, 12:57:22 AM »

Good to see the end is near.
BTW, hows your roommate doing during all this time ??
The one that just moved in when I was there.
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Every cm was TORTURE.
Went from 158cm to 166cm in Beijing !!
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« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2010, 07:44:19 AM »

Quote from: jj link=topic=2971. msg35188#msg35188 date=1266765785

I believe our Italian friend paid some extra (I think he was here between 5 and 6 months).   Not entirely sure.
I was offered single cut but went for the double.   I guess if I hadn't my lengthening would have taken a few weeks longer but I wouldn't now but going through the mind-bending pain of standing against a wall for an hour each day to correct my ballerina foot.   So you win some you lose some.


Just today I was told that extra stay beyond the 4 months would need to be negotiated, but generally if it is under a month then they will allow it for free. 

Also, regarding the single/double cut, I was told that the doctors would make the decision on a per-patient basis, that they recommend double for a speedier recovery, and that the patient doesn't get a choice in the matter.  I'll follow up to see what (if any) criteria they use to determine if you're more suitable for a single or double cut, although it sounds more like they just prefer double cut and that's what you're gonna get.
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LeeS
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« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2010, 02:46:09 PM »

Thanks for the update inchy.  I join with the others in thanking you for the useful info and analysis you have provided in your updates.  For us at the pre LL stage it is very valuable. 
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« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2010, 02:49:45 PM »

Good to see the end is near.
BTW, hows your roommate doing during all this time ??
The one that just moved in when I was there.

Thanks Mate. I was away from the hospital for a long time, so not sure, but I think his frames were removed 5-6 weeks ago.
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Inchitator
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« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2010, 02:50:52 PM »

Just today I was told that extra stay beyond the 4 months would need to be negotiated, but generally if it is under a month then they will allow it for free. 

Also, regarding the single/double cut, I was told that the doctors would make the decision on a per-patient basis, that they recommend double for a speedier recovery, and that the patient doesn't get a choice in the matter.  I'll follow up to see what (if any) criteria they use to determine if you're more suitable for a single or double cut, although it sounds more like they just prefer double cut and that's what you're gonna get.

In my humble opinion, most things are negotiable here...
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« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2010, 02:52:03 PM »

Thanks for the update inchy.  I join with the others in thanking you for the useful info and analysis you have provided in your updates.  For us at the pre LL stage it is very valuable. 

Thanks Mate

UPDATE:

I am back in Beijing now and will hopefully get an estimate tomorrow of how long it will take to get my frames off.
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« Reply #98 on: June 13, 2010, 10:57:46 AM »

In my humble opinion, most things are negotiable here...

Absolutely.. just like most things in China are. But, I think I read in Halo's diary that the hospital is pretty full at the moment. They also didn't seem to hesitate much when deciding to raise the price. I tried to negotiate a few things, and they gave way a little on the total package price, but I get the feeling that the bargaining power isn't really in my court and the downside to losing a single patient isn't much for them. I'm guessing that once you're in the hospital, you'll be even more at a disadvantage when trying to negotiate a longer stay or other amenities because they've already got you there.

Then again, maybe I just suck at negotiating and they can sense that I really want this and am gonna go through with it anyways haha.
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« Reply #99 on: June 29, 2010, 11:46:32 PM »

Hello! i have just been reading through your diary for the last hour :D it has inspired me to seriously consider LL, im only 17 and want to do it! so i have a few questions i would love to ask if you wouldn't mind mate!

Firstly can i get a rough estimation on how much the WHOLE experience cost. . .  im from the UK as well so in pounds Wink haha!
i want 8cm done as well, so how long in total does it take to get back to normal life. .  because i want to party hard!
ok one last question dude, i have heard a lot about this ballerina foot and bending issues. . .  are these fixable, or is it a problem for life :S, ok ok one more thing!! your proportion. . .  do you still think even after 8cm your proportion still looks right,

Right! I much appreciate, and look forward to your answers. .  im sorry for being very curious but im at that age where i must know everything!! and seeing your from the UK really helps me out. .  thanks dude :)
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