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Author Topic: Jay7 - Internal Femurs - Dr. Guichet - 2010 - Quest for 7cm and a Learning Experience  (Read 96790 times)
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TallManComing
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« Reply #220 on: October 02, 2010, 08:59:39 AM »

2500 for a hospital that wouldn't provide you with timely access to food, water, and EVEN ICE needed to calm inflammation??

Unacceptable...

I hope you are doing better.
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you only live once
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« Reply #221 on: October 05, 2010, 04:09:59 PM »

Hi all, I have been following his diaryfor a while and I am grateful to him for sharing this experience.  I will be going for an appointment with Dr Guichet this december and hopefully embark on the LL journey early next year.  Anybody doing the same do pm me.  thanks and god bless
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jay7
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« Reply #222 on: October 09, 2010, 11:08:32 PM »

Hi all!

Time or a little update again. I didn't write here for such a long time that some of you might allready start to worry what happend... (at least I allways found it very suspicious when someone who started a diary just disappears at one point during the process... not a good sign!). So I better write an update once and a while in order for you not to get a wrong impression...:-) The thing is that after 4 month of LL (including my latest complication) I am a bit sick of the whole thing and am therefore also not logging in here that often anymore.

What is my status?

I recovered very well, stopped clicking also on the new and replaced nail in my left leg and should now, according to newest measurements, on both legs be at about 8.6 cm. This makes me about 183 or even 184 in the morning and yes, this is a pretty lifechanging thing.
I used the wheelchair only until about 2 weeks ago and then changed to the walker again, a week ago I exchanged this against the crutches again. However, I am not at all back to the mobility level I was during lengthening (walking almost normally and even without crutches during a wonderfull summer...).

Well, this time I am of course also behaving differently than during my "crazy lengthening summer", not taking any risk, I mean I won't for any price go through another third operation like this AGAIN....

As you can read when you go over the pages about the lengthening it was in retrospect a pretty cool time and more like a nice language learning, beach-and-pool, sports-holiday - in NO WAY a horrific experience as you can read about in other diaries here. The BAD PART for me came actually after lengthening was over and consisted of two horrific days in hospital and thereafter a pretty boring time in the wheelchair.

I reflected on the question "why did this happen?" a bit and I think it was a combination of two things:
- The fact that the larger part of the nail left the bone channel (you can see this on one of the previous Xrays - let's see if I can post it again
- in combination with my "active" lifestyle

I did some experiments using pens and figured out that the distribution of forces drastically changes when the bigger part of the nail even only comes close to the point where it leaves the bone-channel which indeed makes the risk of breaking much more likely (BEFORE it actually leaves the bone). Also Guichet told me that I should be "more carefull" but this might indeed not have been enough and also the trainers where not informed of it and maybe did a bit to much with me, so, in the end I am not happy about having paid another 10K for something that I have honestly a problem with calling it "my fault" - but OK, sunk cost and more important is looking forward now... Anyway, it leaves a bad aftertaste as you can certainly understand.

This was about three weeks before the complication occurred and you can allready see that the bigger part is underway to leave the bonechannel...



I will see if I can motivate myself to also post the final before- and after- complication Xrays here tomorrow - I think this would be quite interesting to see the fracture and how it was fixed... (it would by the way be of help if this diary would be in the VIP area - I wonder why it is not, there are pictures and loads of information here... or do I have to do this? didn't figure out how... Also the coming chapters - see below - will contain information that should eventually only be made available to a closed user-group)

I had also a lot of new insights about Dr. Guichet, other patients and other aspects of this operation and will also try to take the time to write on all this the coming days. As a reminder for myself, I do allready now start collection the topics I want to elaborate about over the coming days here below:

- The complication/fracture- Xrays before and after, explanation of how the forces changed, explanation of why the leg is and will stay slightly bend now

- Nail: the new versus the old nail (Guichet Nail vs. Albizzia pro/cons) actually I have the so-called Guichet Nail on my left now and the other one on my right so I can compare... ;-) - the rational behind the question "which patient gets which nail..."

- Dr. Guichet's Pricing policy: A special and during lunch here often and sometimes heatedly discussed topic.

- Final review: This journal started up as a comparison between D. Betz and Dr. Guichet (which I compared as good as possible here before operation - better read the beginning again before reading this chapter!). Now, after going through with this surgery I can add a lot of information and help others to make a more informed decision

Well, all the above will be details. Interesting only for those who want to get to a very informed level before their operation with this kind of nail. Those who are looking rather for answers on "should I do this or not" or "which techniques are there available" might be better off elsewhere... :-)
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longernow
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« Reply #223 on: October 10, 2010, 08:45:52 AM »

Hi jay,

great to hear from you (finally!).  I would say that your diary is one of the best on this forum.  You've been very detailed, been open about your experience and shared lots of information about a major complication, which anyone doing the same type of operation could experience.  All aspects that qualify for VIP status I think! (MMT, what do you think? ;-) )

having now met more than one ll patient I can say your diary has certainly confirmed some things:

- That moderate and constant (not intense) exercise is critical to adaptation and recovery during lengthening
- HOWEVER, one needs to be careful during exercise to preserve the nail's function
- If there are any sharp pains to arrange an xray immediately to check for fractures

having met you i can say you do seem quite positive and your proportions seem very good.  I look forward to meeting you at your new stature, i think i will be blown away.

@MMT, not sure if you've met jay7 however I can say from both a personal and physical proportions point of view he seems to be a very grounded and ideal candidate for ll.  A very good example really (another good reason to promote him to VIP ;-) )

@jay7, drop me a PM when you come down our way, i know this is likely to be sometime in 2011 at the earliest :-)

hoping the consolidation goes well and quickly and you recover form asap.

all the best.
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TallManComing
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« Reply #224 on: October 12, 2010, 01:01:50 AM »

I own a personal training gym and have a bachelors in kinesiology.

What kind of exercises, reps, sets, weight, intensity did the trainers have you do?
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bba
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« Reply #225 on: October 12, 2010, 07:10:06 AM »

hey hay,

congratulation on your amazing journey!

you have one of the most detailed diaries i've read here, it was very helpful to me!

I m very interested in reading what you ll write about the topics - especialy the final review you described on your last post.

i am still thinking about the pros e cons of guichet and betz

best regards
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« Reply #226 on: October 12, 2010, 09:42:38 AM »

Hey, Jay. I can't believe they charged you 10,000 EUR (or USD?) for the fracture? I can't imagine how that must have felt to find that the nail complication wasn't covered under 9. Or was it, partially covered? So, emergency hospital costs are like ten grand in France? Man, in the end, those are frick'n real estate prices.

Dr. Guichet's Q&A
9. Are complications or unscheduled surgery covered in your costs?
The cost covers the fees for unscheduled surgeries during the lengthening period and the stay in Marseille.

The hospital is running under a low cost for re-operations but all patients must pay the hospital costs.  These are sometimes taken care of by patientís health insurance in emergency conditions.
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anna,
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« Reply #227 on: October 13, 2010, 09:14:24 PM »

hello Jay!

congradulations on your achievement!and congradulations on your amazing diary! it's amazing and very helpful, i have been following the diary since you started and i'm very happy for you. i'm glad that you are getting better now!

i already met dr Guichet, one year and half ago, and i would like to talk with him about the new nail and some other things but his email is not working or he changed i don't know. . .
so i would like to ask you, if you can send me his email by private menssage. . .  i really don't want to bother you because i know that you
are probably tired, but i will be grateful if you could help me

i don't know if you are able to send me a PM,because unfortunely i can't send to you. i hope you can.
 
 my best regards
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« Reply #228 on: October 14, 2010, 09:25:25 AM »

A friend of mine paid 43,000 euros to get the operation a few years ago. While finalizing the deal he asked Guichet if this includes the charges to remove the nail. And Guichet waved it away saying oh don't worry about that the charges for removal they are hardly anything at all. When the patient went back a year later he was shocked to find that Guichet was charging him another 8k euros to remove the nail. If you include the hotel stay and ticket the total came to about 10k. So he ended up paying 53k in all. I think Guichet is an amazing doctor and genius (he invented the albizzia) but is a little too pricey and not always fair with his charges. You should get him to give you a discount for nail removal. But ask him sweetly. Not now but maybe when you go back in a year.
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nsd_second
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« Reply #229 on: October 23, 2010, 07:19:46 PM »

Hi everyone,
I had my consultation with guichet recently, I met jay7 and the rest of the paitients that were lengthening at that time. each was in a different stage of the process, and all seemed very well.
I just want to say that jay's descriptions in this diary regarding everything he mentioned was very accurate, he did a wonderfull job explaining everything in detail and has provided very credible information. everything he wrote here is as close to reality as it gets.

hope that you'll continue to write about the topics you mentioned jay, especially on guichet's pricing policy which sounds very interesting  Wink
cheers
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jay7
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« Reply #230 on: October 27, 2010, 01:20:21 PM »

Hey all,

so here I am again... Sorry for dissapearing such a long while once again but it is as I described it before: After you are done with this thing you just want to return to real life and all these questions of people that didn't even had their operation yet become a bit "annoying" and you try to push the topic "leg lengthening" out of your life and focus on getting back to normal. I mean in the end I did all this for a better future and not to spent the rest of my days with medical discussions...

However, I guess I owe you to  write about what I promised to write about and it is not my style to leave work-in-progess unfinished so let's bring it on and to an end (over the coming months...).

First of all, thanks that this diary made it to VIP status in the meantime. It will make it easier to write about some of the above mentioned points now.

Secondly, let me give you a status update. I am doing very well again. I have zero pain, I could walk almost normaly if Guichet wouldn't want me not to do it - well, I understand him he doesn't want to take any further risk. So do I and am therefore pretty carefull. I really have to fight mostly with the boredomness and with psychologic issues (I really REALLY would love to work and make money again) and yeah, women tell me I appear a bit "hungry" and lost controll of where my eyes go (allthough I can't second this...).

I recently started going to the gym again, doing mostly upper body exercises and getting back what I lost over the last month. It goes pretty quickly I must say, the body remembers... People are so damn friendl here in the south of France - they come to you in the gym and give your the hand and say "bonjour" allthough you neer met you before...
Also my back, which dissapeared over the complication, is meanwhile back to maybe 70%. Good enough to wear jeans again... I tried with one of my old jeans recently but it turned out to look a bit weird cause it was too short! However, the butt was "presentable", allthough of course not back to "great" (where I am coming from) :-)

So I will see where in Marseille I can get Diesels and buy me a new pair soon, in order not to have to return home in jogging trousers.

I plan to leave Marseille (on my own, probably by train, eventually by plane) in a bit more than two weeks from now. Finally.

So... time for the promissed chapters....  Malheureusement my French teacher is arriving in a minute (yep I would say I am fluent but there is still a lot of space to improve:) so I will shoot the pictures of my Xrays now and then upload and publish them (hopefully, keep thumbs pressed!) this evening.

By the way, not to forget the most important thing: The new hight is AMAZING. I think I will be VERY HAPPY once things are back to normal and work, money and xxx are back.

There she is... So long!
Jay
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jay7
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« Reply #231 on: October 27, 2010, 04:39:54 PM »

Ok, before I finally start the chapter on my complication, I quickly run through recent questions:

A friend of mine paid 43,000 euros to get the operation a few years ago. While finalizing the deal he asked Guichet if this includes the charges to remove the nail. And Guichet waved it away saying oh don't worry about that the charges for removal they are hardly anything at all. When the patient went back a year later he was shocked to find that Guichet was charging him another 8k euros to remove the nail. If you include the hotel stay and ticket the total came to about 10k. So he ended up paying 53k in all. I think Guichet is an amazing doctor and genius (he invented the albizzia) but is a little too pricey and not always fair with his charges. You should get him to give you a discount for nail removal. But ask him sweetly. Not now but maybe when you go back in a year.

I agree that his pricing is hmmm "somewhat an too individual issue" - let's put it that whay and I will elaborate further when I come to the above mentioned chapter on his pricing later. HOWEVER, bear in mind that he is still good 5K cheaper than Dr. Betz with his STANDARD prices. And that for an in my eyes clearly better and about 5 years advanced practice (meaning that I think it is fair to say that his protocoll and technology are about 5 years advanced in comparison to Betz's more about this in the concluding chapter at the end). So allthough his pricing policy definitely gives space to complain as far as "fairness" amongst patients is concerend, you still have the best value for money relation here. by far and big time!!! And that doesn't even change if you end up being one of the patients paying a price at the upper range of the scale.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 04:42:08 PM by jay7 » Logged
jay7
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« Reply #232 on: October 27, 2010, 04:49:38 PM »

Hey, Jay. I can't believe they charged you 10,000 EUR (or USD?) for the fracture? I can't imagine how that must have felt to find that the nail complication wasn't covered under 9. Or was it, partially covered? So, emergency hospital costs are like ten grand in France? Man, in the end, those are frick'n real estate prices.

Dr. Guichet's Q&A
9. Are complications or unscheduled surgery covered in your costs?
The cost covers the fees for unscheduled surgeries during the lengthening period and the stay in Marseille.

The hospital is running under a low cost for re-operations but all patients must pay the hospital costs.  These are sometimes taken care of by patientís health insurance in emergency conditions.


Well, let me start the new chapter allready here and brake the "cost of complication" down a bit (didn't I do so before)?

- Hospital about 2.5K
- Nail about 6.5K
- Aneasthesist about 0.4K
- other small expenses related to the complication (wheelchair, ambulance, bloodtest..) about 0.3K

So as you can see there is no fee for Dr. Guichet's work included in the complication cost. He didnt charge me for doing the operation and therefore everything is in compliance with his FAQ's. However, I do strongly assume that there is a margin on the cost for the nail... Allthough he offered me a 10% discount on it without me asking for it. If there still was a margin left, which I do assume, he might have earned a bit. But I think that is, well, somehow ok.  Believe me, I wasn't in the state to negotiate and also now the money is the least issue. I am happy things worked out fine in the end. Also, as I said before, price/value are in great realtion given that in my eyes there is simply no better option for LL in this world (and given the change this brings to your life).
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jay7
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« Reply #233 on: October 27, 2010, 05:35:27 PM »

The Complication: How a Fracture turned my LL Dream into a Horror Movie!

Ahh... well, ok, I confess that I exagerate to get more attention with this headline....;-) But ok, I mean just read the previous pages and you will understand what I mean: Real PAIN for the first time, no food and water in the hospital (attention, I exagerrate a bit again!), fear to have one leg shorter than the other one for a long time, etc. etc.... Just a f***ed up September for me. Actually from my current perspective I can't hardly remember but I really had a bad time, for the first time since I embarked for this journey.

So, as far as a textual description for this chapter is concerned, please first go back two three pages NOW to read everything about my complication fracture in detail. Here I will only give an brief overview and post the pictures I allways promised to publish. I will not again go into the emotional part, pain, etc. etc.... Please read go back one, two pages for this.

In a nutshell:

- After an amazing summer with walking-without-crutches, everyday-sports, swiming in the sea and pool, etc. etc. I broke my left leg at the end of August
- How and when exactly it broke could never be exactly determined. I had pain for about two weeks, falsly attributed it to a muscle issue and then found out about it when I saw THIS xray a couple of days after I stopped clicking:



- Just to make it really clear (yes, I often get questions on things that have allready been said so let me say it twice): I think the fracture that I found through this xrays came slowly and was allready there about two weeks before this image was taken. Yes, it is indeed surprising that I didn't notice it and falsly attributed the pain it provided to whatever else (muslce problems, issues with the screws... etc. etc.)

- read the options Guichet offered me on the preceeding pages... In the end we decided to replace the nail with a new one. Since the bone was broken on the level where the nail was screwed to it (as you can see above) Dr. Guichet had to insert a longer nail this time. I was happy that he inserted the old nail in the first place (with a length of only 28cm) so he could insert the NEW nail this time (with a length of 32cm). If this would not have been the case I would probably have PERMANENTLY lost lengths... Why? Because he had to screw the new nail to the bone further down (because the bone was fractured where the old nail was screwed to it, as you can see above, and you can't screw something to the bone where it is fractured). So this new nail had to be longer than the old one in order for me not to loose to much of the gap / the gap equals the newly won height.

Dr. Guichet therefore inserted a longer new nail, which he prelengthened by another 4cm to make it even longer. During the operation, which consited of taking out the old nail and inserting the new one, I anyway lost some height because the leg collapsed once the old nail was taken out (makes sense, doesn't it? nothing holds the two bone-end appart from each other anymore). After the operation D. Guichet therefore added a good piece of this lost height again through clicking (I guess he must have clicked me 400 times after the OP - which explains why the leg felt so terrible afterwards). So when it was done I only had to do another about 200 clicks myself to catch up with the right leg again. After the operation AND after I did these additional clicks the left leg looked like this:


FRONTVIEW


PROFILEVIEW

As you can see, some of the clicks that I did afterwards did not go into the large gap BUT into the fracture, however, it didn't really matter since the nail is now properly screwed to the bone again.

- More insights later! We have a farewell apero now and since I will probably get a bit drunk I have to eat a bit before I join the crew...-

cheers
Jay
 
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TallManComing
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« Reply #234 on: October 30, 2010, 01:46:59 PM »

Glad you're doing better.

This is a good lesson for the rest of us. Always better to do less and take it easy. There will be plenty of time to do sports and other activities when the bone is fully consolidated.
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« Reply #235 on: November 12, 2010, 05:05:10 PM »

Jay I recently started a thread regarding the difference in the nail insertion scar between Guichet and Betz:

http://www.makemetaller.org/index.php/topic,3538.0.html

if I understood correctly, Guichet's method will cause scars on the buttocks, while betz's scars on the hip. you didn't take this into consideration when you made the choice between them both in the begging of this diary. regarding everything else guichet seems like a good option to me, as you know I met him. but I'm wondering if I should go with betz because I think I prefer a scar on the hip. even though scars on the butt are much more hidden, I think that once you are in a situation when they aren't hidden, they would cause more attention and questions.

I would like to know more on the current look of your nail insertion scars, do you think that if guichet seems fine to me overall then this should really be a factor?
thanks
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« Reply #236 on: November 13, 2010, 10:09:10 AM »

Dear Jay7,

It was fascinating spending the whole night just reading your diary from beginning to end, and u made it easier to me 1st to have the courage to decide having LL Surgery in the near uture, and 2nd to go to Marseille in summer and have it with Dr.  Guichet.

Though it might have been a bit difficult at some points, but as an overall it was a great experience resulting great legs at the end. . . . . . YOU WERE MEANT TO HAVE A HEIGHT OF 184 CMS. . . . . . . . very proportional body and I bet all the ladies will be amazed by your new height and nice abs  Tongue

Hope you take good care of yourself while recovering completely bud!
 
I envy you! hope it will be my turn soon Smiley))
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« Reply #237 on: November 14, 2010, 08:40:18 AM »

I think your name needs to be changed to Jay8.5 ;-)
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« Reply #238 on: December 30, 2010, 08:53:54 PM »

Jay I recently started a thread regarding the difference in the nail insertion scar between Guichet and Betz.
http://www.makemetaller.org/index.php/topic,3538.0.html
if I understood correctly, Guichet's method will cause scars on the buttocks, while betz's scars on the hip. you didn't take this into consideration when you made the choice between them both in the begging of this diary.
regarding everything else guichet seems like a good option to me, as you know I met him. but I'm wondering if I should go with betz because I think I prefer a scar on the hip. even though scars on the butt are much more hidden, I think that once you are in a situation when they aren't hidden, they would cause more attention and questions.

I would like to know more on the current look of your nail insertion scars, do you think that if guichet seems fine to me overall then this should really be a factor?
thanks
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« Reply #239 on: January 12, 2011, 08:29:07 AM »

Hi guys, I had surgery about 2 months after Jay, and for 2 months I was in Calypso with him. I am still in contact with him and he is very fine, he is just busy working but I m sure he will post as soon as he got his Xrays. I did surgery with Guichet the 3th september and stopped clicking the 6th of october, I did 5cm (more or less), I am very happy, I m now about 174-175 (evening morning). Recovery after clicking is actually the most difficult part, it takes a long time!! I can walk without crushes for 1 or 2 hours, climb stairs and so on... However even if I look almost normal when I walk, I really dont feel normal inside my legs yet!! I think I will feel normal again in about 2 to 3 months.

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