I am officially pissed off.

[pinpan]

some LL are dumb and many tall people are really smart - my urologist - .

what makes you think big brains go together with dwar*s ?

[basoon]

I dont think he meant it as a factual statement.  Theres smart tall people and smart short people.

I do agree with the previous statements about going to college and getting a good job.  Career advancements are really about who you know and how you get it .  I use to be a manager in starbucks  not because i had any experience or management degree in college, but because my best friend quit and chose me as a temporary replacement.  Ive gotten many jobs because i was "grandfathered" in.

These days everybody is going to college.  So your chances of getting a job is as high as the average college graduate.  Of course going to a top university can give you an advantage, but it also depends on your major too.  If you graduate from an ivy league with say a philosophy degree, chances are you still wont get any jobs.  The jobs that are most likely always hiring are in the medical/ computer field, but thats only because not many people major in those.

If you want to own a restaurant, you definitely have to have a plan of what type of restaurant it will be and your market audience.  I believe its stated that the restaurant business is like the riskiest investment one can make .

[Blakamo]

Only if you're an idiot.

[TallManComing]

Short men have more to prove, hence accomplish more in life.


Waiting tables can be quite lucrative. In a busy upscale restaurant like the cheesecake factory, full time servers can make over 70k a year. At upscale restaurants like mortons steakhouse or gibsons, they can make 100k a year.

I know, I used to be a restaurant manager. Of course you need people skills and a high stress tolerance.


Studying everyday working on your math skills will of course improve your math skills. However, you will not be able to compete against left brained nerds that are naturally good at math. Remember, engineering and IT programs have placement tests.

You must also consider the high debt load. There are many unemployed lawyers right now that can't find a job. On top of that, they have 150-200k in student loan debt. This debt CANNOT be discharged in bankruptcy.


Like I said, focus on making money and have a 5 year plan. If all goes well, you should be able to get LL at 21.

[Kidrobot]

I have a feeling blakamo comes from a part of the world where advanced schooling is socialized or blakamo has to be so good that's he'll win scholarships which also solves that problem, "just become so good they can't ignore you" (Steve Martin's advice on how to break into comedy, and really anything). Oh and yeah, that's terrific advice TALLMANCOMING you're advising this 15 year old kid to become a fulltime waiter at the f'n cheesecake factory. Brilliant! Are you stupid? And so what if he get's to his goal in five years, he'll be a 20 year LOSER looked down on by his peers and mates alike. Anyways, I've given my advise with a very specific plan, yes you will probably make NO money in the short term through this, but FAR more eventually. I would ignore all these of stats about college grads or law-school debt by the way. You're aiming to be the best --so just like only 2 percent of waiters make 70 k, at least 10 percent of lawyers make over 500 000 (and from a good school 100 percent make over 100 000). To make it in ANYTHING you have to in the top five, anything. I don't understand why all you guys can get so psyched about getting LL and how much courage and sacrifice and pain you're willing to go through blah, blah, blah to improve your lives, when here's a plan that's totally doable(especially if begun at the right age) and you just keep hearing excuses, excuses, excuses...

[coffee15]

I second kidrobot. Sorry Tallmancoming, but that is stupid. Having a lot of money from jobs that garner no respect is worthless. Money does not equal happiness.

Its not even that much money, 70k wont do anything these days.

[basoon]

Kidrobot, you give good advice about climbing to the top /studying hard/Getting a typical high paying job.  But i think you should also consider that not everyone wants to have those jobs even though its high paying. Some people have specific goals and careers in mind that arent exactly a Doctor/Lawyer pay status.  Blakamo specificaly has a dream of owning a restaurant so being a waiter and climbing up the ranks of a restaurant job would still give him experience in that field as well as money.

Most average kids in their 20's are still in college and have part time jobs anyways. Nobody is going to think he's a loser because he's waiting tables.  Even when you make more than 50k a year waiting tables at a good restaurant, you still get paid and at the end , accomplish your goal to have LL.  You dont always have to conform to societys expectations and goals but to be happy with what youre doing in life.

[coffee15]

wait wait, hold on a second.

"You dont always have to conform to societys expectations"
thats why we're all freaking here. Because society has these expectations about height. It tends to attract people who are quite responsive to society's expectations.

he's also quite young, and doesnt realize what he can achieve. Saying you shouldnt dream of something bigger when you dont know better is foolish.

Yes, tehres lots of losers in their 20's. This chap will happen to be a loser who is also short. sux x2. eliminate one for now, and you'll be on even ground as them. Then, eliminate the other problem and you're in the clear.

[basoon]

Unfortunately height is a big issue in society and in our minds.  But what i meant is that when you surround yourself with a good group of friends and colleagues, there's a lot more to life than worrying about high position white collar people looking down at you. This is the mentality of someone try[ing to overcompensate in life.

 I know friends in their mid 20's to almost 30s that have been a bartender or waited in upscale restaurants.  Yeah they might not have your "respect", didnt change the fact that he lives a very exciting a interesting life with no problem of finding dates or caring whether they think you look down on them or not.

And i dont know what you mean by respect , do you only expect upper class snobby rich women as part of your dating demographic or something? Because otherwise, that would be the only time where you have to be so concerned in life about "respect" or your job title

[coffee15]

this has nothing to do with having good friends and having an interesting life. Thats easy, be friendly and do interesting things. The OP has issues with women and getting picked on.

Sorry to break it to you, but not everyone that is successful are "overcompensating", "only trying to impress rich twats" and the like.
1) having a successful career leads to interesting opportunities in life. Not being dude who spends his entire life in bars
2) your last post entirely forgets that the OP has a height issue that clearly affects him, as you concede. Society tells him that he is less likely to be successful, which means he needs to be confident in himself that he can be successful. The easiest way for him to do that is to be successful. Waiting tables is not going to help.
3) There is this false dichotomy that people who believe that all successful people who are somehow losing out on social opportunities, or that they are shallow. its not a dichotomy, it usually tends to be that successful people are best at navigating social opportunities and see the richness that their career can give them in their lives. Again, waiting tables opens none of these doors.

im not trying to diss you or make this an ad hominem attack, but for a kid in high school who doesnt feel too good about himself at the moment, im not sure how you can justify saying "just go with it". Taking control of your life and shaping your world is an important life skill, one that'll make him really happy once he figures it out.

/endrant.

[Kidrobot]

Kidrobot, you give good advice about climbing to the top /studying hard/Getting a typical high paying job.  But i think you should also consider that not everyone wants to have those jobs even though its high paying. Some people have specific goals and careers in mind that arent exactly a Doctor/Lawyer pay status.  Blakamo specificaly has a dream of owning a restaurant so being a waiter and climbing up the ranks of a restaurant job would still give him experience in that field as well as money.

Most average kids in their 20's are still in college and have part time jobs anyways. Nobody is going to think he's a loser because he's waiting tables.  Even when you make more than 50k a year waiting tables at a good restaurant, you still get paid and at the end , accomplish your goal to have LL.  You dont always have to conform to societys expectations and goals but to be happy with what youre doing in life.

I totally agree with you. But a lot of this has to do with self-worth and confidence as well. Being a waiter, no matter how good you are is always going to be looked as a piece-of-shi* job(true, not while you're in college) --but that's only if he's also EXCELLING at school. Even if we wanted a non-professional career he should be working very, very hard towards that.

Listen to this guy, he's one of the top chefs/restaurant owners in new york. He's like a psycho in terms of work ethic he works 18 hours a day and he's eloquent and well-educated but is respected by chicks and men and titans of industry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxntlBGmOUo or go to charlierose.com and check out the interview with "anthony bourdain" and he'll give you the downlow about the restaurant business and he'll there's a clip where he'll visit ferran adria the owner and chef of el bulli the greatest restaurant in the world --the man is like the picasso of food. Aim to be the best and work that hard and consume every moment of your time with that goal and you will start feeling better about yourself, people will respect you, girls will want you and you will make enough money many times over for LL. This advice is specifically for someone who is 15 and should not be wasting their time at jo-jobs but working day and night to build an amazing careers --even by the time you're 25 you're still a very young man and you can do it then. It'll be icing on the cake, but you have to bake the cake first.

[Kidrobot]

AND my advice to read a book a week still stands regardless of what profession you pursue --it will open your mind, make you verbally more competent and introduce you to new ways of thinking --even if you're a chef, read Proust, a lot of it is about all sense-memories of food --every chef I've ever met LOVES proust. Also, women love guys that can discuss literature and recommend good books.

[tartous505]

Wow, I don't see why this has turned into such an argument.  It sounds like everyone's saying essentially the same thing -

1) If your sole focus is to save up the LL money as quickly as possible, then skipping college will get you there sooner.  That's not an opinion or an endorsement; it's basic math.  By going to a four year college, you are taking on debt and sacrificing the opportunity cost to work and save money for those years.  That's why college is considered an investment - it's debt now for the promise of a future payoff.

2) On average, going to college will payout more money over the course of your life than not having a college degree.  This is especially true the more technical your major is in college (math/engineering/physics/biology majors tend to stay in high demand even through recessions).  Again, that's why college is an investment.

Sure there are exceptions, but I can't imagine anyone seriously claiming that college is on average a bad investment.  And as others have pointed out, high-status jobs almost all require a college degree.  A few other relevant notes for the OP:

 - The cost of LL has historically increased, and will likely continue to do so.  In five years, the same procedure that costs $20K now will most likely cost between $25K and $32K (assuming ~5-10% annual price increases).  Budget appropriately.

 - Just personal experience here, but the majority of restaurant/bar owners that I know did NOT somehow work their way up from being waiters.  Most have past business experience and former white collar careers from which they earned the substantial amount of money that is needed to open up a restaurant.

Finally, @TallManComing - The salary numbers you quoted for waiters are nowhere near the mean or median salaries for that position (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Waiter/Waitress/Hourly_Rate).  Also, I would love to see the information that supports the claim that "short people accomplish more in life."

[coffee15]

on a second note, i wouldnt think that telling someone to go for a job where there are about TEN people who actually do well as good career advice.

Sure, the OP could be president. But lets make sure he has a fall back plan eh?

[Blakamo]

All.... All these things.. All these problems are all because I was given a shitty gene for heiggtvat birth.

My plan was:

1. Work part time to achieve roughly 20k by 20.
2. Go to school and try my best to excel.
3. Through waiting, understand what the restaurant business MEANS.

Sure waiting is a 'cra*' job, but which other job isnt cra* at 15/16?... Mcdonalds?


Having a part time job and reducing hours in my final year is totally doable. I'll have money to get LL without worrying about college debt.

[Blakamo]

Height*

[Blakamo]

On another note, if anyone has any other options as to how I should tackle working in the restaurant business, please let me know. Ones which you feel would be better than waiting, im also a really good cook, i cook dinner for myself almost every day.

Also, does anybody... Have any idea how it would be possible to save up for the ownership of a restaurant in the long term?

[tramp]

Blakamo

You could think about working for yourself.

I started working for myself before I left school and to this day have always been self employed and have never looked back.

If you want it bad enough you will do it.

tramp

[basoon]

On another note, if anyone has any other options as to how I should tackle working in the restaurant business, please let me know. Ones which you feel would be better than waiting, im also a really good cook, i cook dinner for myself almost every day.

Also, does anybody... Have any idea how it would be possible to save up for the ownership of a restaurant in the long term?

Hopefully a loan from the bank , friends , family, partnerships.  You wouldnt be able to immediately be able to transition from student to having your own business so it depends on the type of job you have beforehand and whatever investments you make.

[tartous505]

If your long term goal is to own/manage a restaurant, then you need to at least make a hobby of learning about the business of restaurant ownership.  From what I recall from business school, they are some of the riskiest businesses to start, in large part because people don't realize the underlying economics.

A quick Google search will yield tons of case studies.  Here's an example article I found which I think gives a good overview (http://www.rrgconsulting.com/reduce_the_risk.htm)

You will likely have to take out some sort of bank loan or look for outside investment for your first restaurant, both of which would require you to put together a business plan for your proposed restaurant.