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The Make Me Taller (MMT) community forum provides free information about the only REAL way to become taller - elective leg lengthening (LL) surgery. This site contains detailed information, pictures, videos, diaries and personal accounts from people who have undergone cosmetic LL to become taller. We discuss the pros and cons of Ilizarov, Betzbone, Guichet Nail, PRECICE and other methods. Please read our FAQs first before posting and enjoy your time here finding out how to become taller! Leg Lengthening is a serious endeavor, so do your research! You can also buy MMT's new book about LL called 'Inchworm' at Amazon!

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Author Topic: Why Torso Length Doesn't Matter, But Arm Length Does  (Read 93016 times)
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« Reply #140 on: July 17, 2014, 09:01:49 PM »

Dear users i'm new on the forum. .
i decided to join the forum to be certain about some aspects before opting for LL. . .
let's begin by saying my height is 170. 4 cm, and my only goal is to join "average" short stature, which i always regarded as 174-175.  I don't wan't and i cant't think of me as tall (179+). . i just don't want to be dwarfed by every single men and women and feel discomfortable as i feel now. . . that's it.

my main concern, though, is on proportions.  The problem is my sitting height, because it's 87. 7 cm, and i think it is really tiny (actually, it is). . . also, i'm very skinny at 55 kg, but that's less of a problem because you can always put on some weight. . .
i wandered through the forum before joining, and i found out that sitting-height/height ratio is the index to be taken into account when considering your maximum lengthening objectives. . . Being 87. 7 cm tall (sitting height), i 'd be 0. 50 (s-h/h ratio) at 175 cm. . .
Do you think it's acceptable? I read ranges are as follows:
- long-limbed <0. 51
- norm-limbed  51,1-53,1
- short-limbed >53,2
In the forum, it is reported Dr.  Guichet considers 0. 50 to be the lower limit (so I'd be in if I go for LL +5cm), but some users argue you can even go slightly lower (0. 49), but i didn't need to. . . still, i don't want to look awkward at 175 cm and 87. 7 sitting, so i really need to dismantle every thought on that.

What do you think? Do you think it will be proportionate? I can post photos if needed.

It's best if you post photos with mockups. It won't be exactly as you will be after LL, but it gives a general idea.
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cancerguy
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« Reply #141 on: July 18, 2014, 12:35:25 AM »

Just curious if anyone has come across this website before for finding out proportions.  Its based on the models 8 heard length system for artists, but is it useful for us?

hxxp: hpc. anatomy4sculptors. com/
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Height:          165 cm - 5'5
Wingspan:      175 cm - 5'9
Ethnicity:       Caucasian
Age:              34

Avg.  Male height in country: 175 cm - 5'9
Estimated Height from Parents Calculation: 177cm - 5'10
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« Reply #142 on: July 18, 2014, 07:48:41 AM »

To Cancerguy: yes, i came across it, but i think it is not useful fort LLenghteners.  We are looking for ranges, ranges where we are still in normality.  We need them in order to plan our max/min lengthening objectives and post-LL strategies to cope with the eventual disproportions (if there are any).

I don't have photoshop so can't do mockups.  But those are my proportions (webcam, not so good photos but still helpful).  What do you think?



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Sweden
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« Reply #143 on: July 18, 2014, 08:28:42 PM »

I think you need to hit the gym at least 5 times a week.

Other than that we are all equal proportionate if we don't suffer from some kind of disease. The difference is barely 1-2cm on equal tall guys.
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Starting height 173cm, now confirmed 180cm. Had surgery in India January 8 -13. Did ~7cm on tibia. Frame removal: 16 April -13. 180cm wingspan. Shrunk to 179cm as my final height. Considering femurs.
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« Reply #144 on: July 19, 2014, 02:31:13 PM »

I think you need to hit the gym at least 5 times a week.

Other than that we are all equal proportionate if we don't suffer from some kind of disease. The difference is barely 1-2cm on equal tall guys.

I agree with Sweden. I recently was with a group of four 6'2+/- 0.5inch guys (me being the only shorty), and, as a proportion-concerned MMT member, I had to analyze their proportions :p . Their hands came down to almost exactly same place while standing up. Except for one of them, who was black, their sitting heights all looked like 98-100 CM. I know that studies show that sitting height varies quite a bit relative to standing height, but in the real world I just don't see it that much.
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« Reply #145 on: July 19, 2014, 03:49:37 PM »

@MiracleGrow and Sweden

yeah, that's exactly what i think is the case.  There is a "stats world" and a "real world".  In the latter, at least as regards caucasians, we're roughly equally proportionate, so the point, perhaps, is just to come up with a figure which we can consider as a sort of a "boost" rather than a huge "modification".  Of course, we must say something different for people 165 cm or less, which can trade off a bigger disproportion.
That's personal, I know, and I immensely respect everyone's choice; but i'll go with LL only when I'll be sure I won't cause a huge disproportion.
Also, I think caucasians saying on MMT their sitting height is 90+ cms when they're around 160 standing are generally lying (wishful thinking?), because - "real world" speaking - that's very unlikely.  Asians, well, that's another story.
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exclide
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« Reply #146 on: July 19, 2014, 05:51:24 PM »

Quote
During the past two centuries in the Netherlands, as well as in many more industrialised countries, a positive secular growth change has been observed. Various studies have shown that the positive secular change is mainly due to increase in leg length rather than in trunk length. Tanner reported that between the 1950s and 1980s Japanese height increased solely due to change in leg length. Sitting height showed no increase, so the trunk/leg proportions changed much more towards the proportions of North Europeans, though their final height was still 1 SD lower.

So we came to conclusion that statistics are a lie? Earth must also be flat, because it definitely doesn't seem like a sphere.
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exclide
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« Reply #147 on: July 19, 2014, 07:36:57 PM »

More data (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1720514/pdf/v090p00807.pdf):
Quote
The negative correlation between SH/H SDS and H SDS signifies that for short or tall children the usual cut-off limits for
body proportions (+-2.0 SDS) would result in considerable percentages of children who would be considered as disproportionate. This is shown in table 3. If one would strive for a specificity of about 98%, the cut-off limit of SH/H SDS for short
children would be +2.5 SDS, and for tall children -2.2.
A SDS of -2.2 is 0.47 SH/H on the graph. That means you can lengthen to 187 and still be considered proportionate. For more usual cut-off of -2, SH/H would be 0.48, that means you can lengthen to 183 cm.

Quote
There was a statistically significant negative correlation between SH/LL and SH/H and height. For practical purposes, in an exceptionally short child a SH/H ratio below +2.5 SDS and in a tall child a SH/H ratio above –2.2 should still be considered normal.
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MiracleGrow
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« Reply #148 on: July 19, 2014, 09:57:57 PM »

Thanks for the studiy excerpts. Very interesting. However, medically normal, aesthetically normal/pleasing/acceptable, and realistically common are different aspects of proportionality that should all be considered before undertaking LL. I don't believe I see many 187CM Caucasian men with sitting heights of 90cm.
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"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." -Reinhold Niebuhr
exclide
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« Reply #149 on: July 19, 2014, 11:43:08 PM »

I don't believe I see many 187CM Caucasian men with sitting heights of 90cm.
You aren't supposed to see many, as it's a cut-off deviation. Just like you aren't supposed to see many 160cm or 2m tall males. However, a SDS of +-1, which should be seen quite often (like 170 cm and 190cm males - taking 180cm for avg), would be SH/H ratio of 0.525 to 0.495, which means 92.5cm to 98cm SH at 187cm. If he goes with that, he can still lengthen to 178cm.
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Rgkey
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« Reply #150 on: July 25, 2014, 12:09:26 AM »

To Cancerguy: yes, i came across it, but i think it is not useful fort LLenghteners.  We are looking for ranges, ranges where we are still in normality.  We need them in order to plan our max/min lengthening objectives and post-LL strategies to cope with the eventual disproportions (if there are any).

I don't have photoshop so can't do mockups.  But those are my proportions (webcam, not so good photos but still helpful).  What do you think?





to me you got perfect proportions
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« Reply #151 on: July 26, 2014, 10:02:50 AM »

@Softpower:

I think your proportions are ok.  Because you are skinny, you look like you were quite tall (tall guys often look like that; a friend of mine is 1. 87m and has similiar proportions).
I think (concerning proportions), lenghtening shouldn't be a problem.  But I agree with Sweden, workout would be a good idea, but maybe not 5 times a week for beginning.

Greetings Morpheus
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Bob.D
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« Reply #152 on: July 26, 2014, 07:27:44 PM »

Hello, this is my first posting, glad to be among others who see how important height is in our society, I hope to be on the operating table by October.
I am 5'5" have a sitting height of about 34. 5 to 35 inches, arm span of 5'9. 5 and that is just being relaxed and not stretching the arms, finger tip to
finger tip, I do a little body building as well, my over all goal is 5' 10" does this sound reasonable? do we think I could hit 5' 11" and still look
proportioned?

Bob. D
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« Reply #153 on: August 15, 2014, 09:50:12 PM »

Today I ate lunch with somebody very interesting, not just character-wise, but also proportion-wise. This guy is Caucasian (says he's of German descent), and stands 6'4-6'4.5 (~194CM) depending on the time of day. Guess who had the taller sitting height? I did! My sitting height is 96CM. We were talking about tshirts and I pointed out that it was funny that we both wore size mediums despite our massive height difference. He chuckled and said that it was because he has ridiculously long legs. He wears pants with a whopping 40 inch inseam! He said that anything shorter looks noticeably short on him. As a proportions-obsessed prospective LL-er, I felt as though I was looking at a unicorn. I couldn't believe that such proportions actually existed, let alone occurred naturally, and asked him to sit up as straight as possible. Sure enough, I was 2-3CM taller! His medium t-shirt went down past his waist. Standing up, though, he looks perfectly proportionate, and does very well socially, probably in no small part due to the confidence that his impressive height has allowed him. His proportions don't seem to bother him in the slightest. The only things that he has, that an LL-er would lack, are two very long arms, which work wonders in balancing out his proportions. His forearms were especially long and, as we know, those can't be lengthened. His hands were of pretty normal size though. I am sharing this story to validate the claim made in the thread title, and to give my take on why I am now more confident that a short sitting height doesn't necessarily mean that you'll look like a freak after LL.
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« Reply #154 on: August 15, 2014, 11:54:39 PM »

It's good to finally see the unicorn in person and realize that all of the tall about torso length is bunk. 99% of the people in the world will not notice your arm length either. Height is far more important in the grand scheme of things.
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« Reply #155 on: August 17, 2014, 12:13:24 AM »

And now to end this discussion once and for all, the promotional image for "Citizen Kane", widely believe to have been one of the best movies ever made. This guy is wearing his pants so high that he barely appears to have a torso at all:

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MiracleGrow
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« Reply #156 on: August 17, 2014, 01:46:34 AM »

Yes, SysOp, the 1940's would have been a wonderful time to do LL  Tongue I don't know if that's still a fashionable look today, but a lot of comic book super heroes have it.
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"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." -Reinhold Niebuhr
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« Reply #157 on: August 20, 2014, 04:48:54 PM »

it's all about personal taste thou. In russia there is one guy who did LL 6cms and he likes to wear his pants way up, and everyone makes fun of him because his legs look so long in proportion with his torso. Everyone says how unproportional he looks with long legs and small torso. I personally think in a picture it might look fine but in real life movement I personally dont find it nice looking.
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« Reply #158 on: August 20, 2014, 05:54:17 PM »

I personally don't want to have to wear my pants low after LL in order to look proportional. I don't like the low/sagging pants look.
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“Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor.” -Alexis Carrel


"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." -Reinhold Niebuhr
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« Reply #159 on: October 19, 2014, 01:30:47 PM »

if someone does not monitor or large, the difference is okay.  However, very few companies reach an extension, it is much harder than the leg.
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