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Author Topic: Reborn - Internal Femurs - Dr. Betz - 2007 - I feel truly reborn 9.5 cm  (Read 79910 times)
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reborn
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« on: September 09, 2007, 04:14:37 PM »

I have just finished my lengthening with the Albizzia nail.
I have met with all internal nail inventors and can speak intelligently about all devices
Please feel free to ask any question.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 11:52:44 AM by SysOp » Logged
reborn
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2007, 04:51:13 PM »

If anyone has a question about what surgeon, or what device to use please ask.
I have had consultations with Dr. Dean Cole (ISKD), Dr. Jean-Marc Guichet (Albizzia), and Dr. Augustine Betz (Fitbone, Albizzia, ISKD).
My goal is not to persuade or disuade. I simply wish to share my knowledge and experience with other people considering this life operation
I have seen alot of comparison debates among surgeons and devices and unfortunately many of these people lack credibility in the sense that it is pure speculation.
After reading discussion boards I realized that the only way to find the truth is to see all of the options first hand.
After weighing all of my options I decided to come to Germany and undergo LL with Proffessor Betz. His web page is extremely old and does not mention anything about ISKD or Albizzia, but the truth is that he has used every internal and external device on the market with possible exception to the (Bilisnikov, Microwound, and LON) to my knowledge.
My experience has been first class in almost every aspect. As an American I was hesitant to travel outside of my home country for such an operation but it has turned out to be the best decision of my life.
I feel that it is my responsibility to speak honestly and unbiasly about my knowledge and experience so that I can help others the way I was helped. By the way I have just finished lenghening and am in the consolidation phase so all I have is time to respond to any questions or comments.





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Neomail2006
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2007, 05:16:58 PM »

If anyone has a question about what surgeon, or what device to use please ask.
I have had consultations with Dr. Dean Cole (ISKD), Dr. Jean-Marc Guichet (Albizzia), and Dr. Augustine Betz (Fitbone, Albizzia, ISKD).
My goal is not to persuade or disuade. I simply wish to share my knowledge and experience with other people considering this life operation
I have seen alot of comparison debates among surgeons and devices and unfortunately many of these people lack credibility in the sense that it is pure speculation.
After reading discussion boards I realized that the only way to find the truth is to see all of the options first hand.
After weighing all of my options I decided to come to Germany and undergo LL with Proffessor Betz. His web page is extremely old and does not mention anything about ISKD or Albizzia, but the truth is that he has used every internal and external device on the market with possible exception to the (Bilisnikov, Microwound, and LON) to my knowledge.
My experience has been first class in almost every aspect. As an American I was hesitant to travel outside of my home country for such an operation but it has turned out to be the best decision of my life.
I feel that it is my responsibility to speak honestly and unbiasly about my knowledge and experience so that I can help others the way I was helped. By the way I have just finished lenghening and am in the consolidation phase so all I have is time to respond to any questions or comments.








This is all so confusing. You just decided to uproot to Germany for (insert how long here) to get the surgery done and recover? What did a surgery in which you grew 9.5 cm cost, and how long is the recovery time? I'm blown away by all of this information, I had no idea such things existed. I'm just going to try and ask all of my questions here and now, so I can sort everything out. SO, I measured my arm span and it is currently about equivalent to my height. If I wanted to increase my height by say...10cm (Maximum), wouldn't that make my arms look ridiculously small? How would I go about even receiving a surgery like that, would would the cost and recovery time be, and could I work? I'm so confused, please help me fill in the blanks...
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2007, 05:42:29 PM »

Hi reborn,

Congratulations on your successful Leg Lengthening.

It would be very useful to know a little more about your treatment if you have time to describe the steps that you went through, how long it took and how much it cost you.

Here are some questions to get you started:

1. What was your original height? What is your wingspan?
2. Why did you choose Dr. Betz?
3. How much did you pay?
4. How long was your lengthening phase?
5. What exercises did you do during your lengthening?
6. How long do you expect to take until you are fully recovered?
7. Do you have any photos / X-rays to help people get an understanding of the environment?
8. Could we see some photos showing your proportions now?

Are you back home in America now?

Thanks,

MMT
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 05:48:26 PM by MMT Admin » Logged

reborn
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2007, 08:00:49 PM »

Hello MMT, I just want to start by thanking you and everyone who contributes to this discussion board. You are truely part of a miracle. You are helping to change lives every day, and this discussion board has helped change mine.

1) My origional height was 167-167.5 cm and now 176.5-177cm.
2) I have never measured my wingspan. I was always more concerned about the proportion between my legs and torso.
3)After 5 years of research and 3 consultations I decided to go with Betz because he is a brilliant surgeon and a genuine man. He is so passionat about what he does. I trusted him with my life after spending 7 hours with him. He was 3 hours late for his appointment with me but when I finally saw him I felt like the only person who mattered and he took me to his hospital and introduced me to 4 of his patients that night. He is the kind of doctor that comes over on a Sunday to see how you were doing. He came to my room at midnight the night before surgery to comfort me before the operation.
4) The whole price thus far including physio has been about $50,000 euro, but I go to a physio 6 days a week.
5) I think that I will take some pictures of the hospital and Betz's office along with one of my x-rays at the end of lengthening.

I hope this helps. I wish to help other potential patients achieve there dreams.
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jungle
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2007, 08:07:02 PM »

Hello MMT, I just want to start by thanking you and everyone who contributes to this discussion board. You are truely part of a miracle. You are helping to change lives every day, and this discussion board has helped change mine.

1) My origional height was 167-167.5 cm and now 176.5-177cm.
2) I have never measured my wingspan. I was always more concerned about the proportion between my legs and torso.
3)After 5 years of research and 3 consultations I decided to go with Betz because he is a brilliant surgeon and a genuine man. He is so passionat about what he does. I trusted him with my life after spending 7 hours with him. He was 3 hours late for his appointment with me but when I finally saw him I felt like the only person who mattered and he took me to his hospital and introduced me to 4 of his patients that night. He is the kind of doctor that comes over on a Sunday to see how you were doing. He came to my room at midnight the night before surgery to comfort me before the operation.
4) The whole price thus far including physio has been about $50,000 euro, but I go to a physio 6 days a week.
5) I think that I will take some pictures of the hospital and Betz's office along with one of my x-rays at the end of lengthening.

I hope this helps. I wish to help other potential patients achieve there dreams.

Hi Reborn

Congratulation! you done it.. When did you have operatipn? and how your recovery now..are you walking as normal now? Where are you from?

You mentioned you started do research about lengthening back 5 years ago. I guess you had thought about LL since you late teens.
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reborn
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2007, 08:21:31 PM »

Hey Jungle, I had my operation May 16 and finished clicking August 18, so I'm about 3 weeks into the post lengthening phase. I finished right on schedule because I clicked 15 times every day except for 1 day that I took off for a break. I must say that it was harder than I thought. I have played soccer my whole life and was not the most flexible person. I did prepare and stretch for the operation but my quadriceps are really tight. It is amazing how much better I felt after only 3 days of no clicking. I can honestly say that the pain and stiffness started to decrease immediately. I took mild pain killers till I got to 7.5 cm. Then Betz kicked it up a notch and gave me some good stuff. I stopped taking all medicine 7 days after I stopped clicking. My function is improving every week. I have a nice curve in my back but that is completely normal. My physio says that it has improved by 20% in 3 weeks and the flextion in my knee is about 90-95 degrees. I do physio 6 times a week with a trainer and I walk alot. I also take calcium and vitamin D. I take my next x-ray in 5 weeks and I pray that I have a good consolidation rate.
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reborn
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2007, 10:49:39 PM »


Neomail, I know that all of this is overwhelming but you have great information at your finger tips  on this discussion board. You are probably wonderind where to begin and I would love to just skip all of my headache and just give you a doctors name and location but each person comes to their own conclusion.

1) Your goal is 10cm so we have now narrowed the lengthening area to the femurs or upper legs as well as singled       ISKD and Fitbone out. So now you have the option of using an external device or an internal device. So perhaps you have some options. If you can afford to spend around 40-$50,000  then I recomend Betz or Guichet. If you are on a tighter budget lets say around 20,000 and under than there are still other options. The beauty of limb lengthening is if you have the will you can get it done even if your budget is around $15,000.

You seem pretty new to all of this so please let me know a little about yourself and what you want so that I can help you. How old are you? When would you want to do this operation if you were to do it? What is your origional height? What is your budget?

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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2007, 11:50:34 PM »


This is all so confusing. You just decided to uproot to Germany for (insert how long here) to get the surgery done and recover? What did a surgery in which you grew 9.5 cm cost, and how long is the recovery time? I'm blown away by all of this information, I had no idea such things existed. I'm just going to try and ask all of my questions here and now, so I can sort everything out. SO, I measured my arm span and it is currently about equivalent to my height. If I wanted to increase my height by say...10cm (Maximum), wouldn't that make my arms look ridiculously small? How would I go about even receiving a surgery like that, would would the cost and recovery time be, and could I work? I'm so confused, please help me fill in the blanks...

Welcome to our community, Neomail.

10cm on one bone segment is not recommended for many reasons - primarily proportions and long-term athletic ability. For example, it's been proven that stretching muscle tissue more than 7.6cm results in permanent power loss - the muscle will not be able to regain the potential strength that it had before. This is why nearly all doctors advise 5cm as an upper limit for any single LL procedure, although more is possible. You just need to weigh-up the pros and cons.

If you are determined to do 10cm, then you are best advised to consider having two operations, splitting the height increase across both tibiae and femurs.

However, you must consider the fact you should, for normal proportions, have a wingspan that is the same as your height.

If you go considerably taller than your wingspan, then you will look like you have short arms!

First step - read the FAQs and a range of diaries, including mine.
Second step - arrange a consultation with a doctor and let them measure you up and give you their recommendation.

Hope that helps!

MMT
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TernTernTernTheNumbers
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2007, 12:44:15 AM »

Assigning arbitrary limits like 10cm, 7.6cm, or 5 cm doesn't always matter. Everyone's body is different.

Was Betz okay with you lengthening 9.5 cm, or did you go against his advice and click more than he said to?
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2007, 05:56:55 AM »

Reborn: 40 000- 50000 usd wont get you far in germany with betz. The euro is much stronger than the USD.

Good luck with the recovery.
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reborn
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2007, 11:39:14 AM »

Hey guys let me clarify 40-50,000 euros. Beyond this price may be additional physio and living expenses if you choose to stay away from home. I can honestly say that up until now with 6 days of physio and 50 euros a day living expenses (room, food, laundry, internet, t.v., transportation) I have paid around 55,000 euros.

I appreciate those out there that are on the conservative side and feel that going over 5 or 7cm is harmful. If you actually go to France or Germany and meet patients as I have you will learn that people are lengthening 8,9, and 10cm. Does more lengthening cause more stress and discomfort to the body? Yes. Is there a longer recovery time? Yes. The fact is that every body is different. The human body has the ability to do 10 or 12 in one region (I am talking about femurs) but it requires proper physio and mental strength. There is no medical evidence thats shows that permanent muscle strength or any other damage is greater after 5 or 7cm. Of coarse it seems logical to say that more damage is done to the soft tissue but you would be suprised how the body can adapt. I am living proof and so are the other 4 patients I met that did 10cm. Now, will I be as fast as I was before or as athletic I honestly cant say but I am very happy with my height to me that is most important.

When I met Betz I said I want 8 to 10 cm. , and he looked at me and said ok. During my lengthening he evaluated my function and when I was around 7cm he said you can do 10 no problem. The only reason I did 9.5 is that my right leg was longer than my left so I clicked more. To be specific I did 9.8 in my right leg and 9.4 in my left leg to make them equal. Dr. Betz told me of the leg discrepancy so i fixed it by clicking more on one side.

The best advice I can give you is to listen to your body. Everyone needs to get it in there head that 10 cm. is possible but may not be for everyone.
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reborn
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2007, 11:58:52 AM »

Neomail, I didnt just uproot and decide to go to Germany. I have been researching and planning for several years. I just finished college and felt like this was the best time to do this. This was the only time in my life that I was able to take 5-8 months off, maybe more if needed. Everyone must give themselves time to do this right. I have seen some patients that want to lenghthen more but they had to stop to return to school or work. There reason was that they wanted the op immediatlely. We all want quick results but it is possible that in 1 or 2 years they may look back a realize that they should have planned better and lengthened more. This is a life changing operation that requires a great sacrifice regarding time and money. Take your time and do it right so that you will be happy with the result as I am.
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2007, 12:03:18 PM »

There is no medical evidence thats shows that permanent muscle strength or any other damage is greater after 5 or 7cm.

Reborn, please be careful when stating things like this. This is incorrect. There IS scientific evidence to suggest that 7.6cm is the elastic limit for muscle tissue.

That doesn't mean that LL beyond this on one segment is not possible - it means that it will have a detrimental effect on the potential power of the muscles and tendons involved. There are plenty of threads discussing this elsewhere.

MMT
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2007, 03:46:35 PM »

MMT can you provide the link? I know i have read it on a webpage also it was a study from a university in the UK i think. But it is true what reborn says about many patients doing more and that it seems to be a non issue.
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2007, 04:44:49 PM »

MMT can you provide the link? I know i have read it on a webpage also it was a study from a university in the UK i think. But it is true what reborn says about many patients doing more and that it seems to be a non issue.

Hi.

There are a lot of studies, but they are heavy-going and most require some medical education and paid subscription to access, but I've posted some links below.

For those without the time of the inclination to pay to read through those studies, here is quick summary, taken from a well-known study by Dror Paley, one of the world's leading LL surgeons, who insists on a 5cm limit per limb:

"Muscle contractures may occur because of the imbalance between the flexors and extensors on opposite sides of the bone and their resultant inability to accommodate to the distraction of the lengthening limb. Contractures often involve muscles that cross two joints. Range of motion (ROM) may be decreased in all planes of the affected joint. Additionally, there may be significant limitation in one direction because of the overpowering force of a large muscle
group. For example, in lengthening of the femur, the hamstrings are the larger muscle group in mass and will therefore offer more resistance to lengthening. Patients with severe muscle contractures 1 year after removal of the fixator..."


In layman's terms, non-medical people think of muscle in a single plane, and that it can therefore be easily stretched vertically. Of course, this is not the case - muscles are not simply aligned top-down, and there is connectivity and movement in different directions.

Because Leg Lengthening is only vertical, you are pulling some muscles in a way that doesn't follow their natural growth pattern or range of motion.

Imagine pulling a concertina apart. Although the forces holding the concertina in place allow you to stretch it and twist it, if it is pulled too far, it will lose its integrity and not be able to compress and expand as fully as before, although it will still be able to function.

Links:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/112218788/ABSTRACT
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/109929366/ABSTRACT
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/109929050/ABSTRACT
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11415564&dopt=AbstractPlus
http://www.jbjs.org.uk/cgi/content/abstract/88-B/12/1666
http://www.deformitycourse.com/body_rubin.cfm?id=1514
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2007, 05:35:45 PM »

MMT, thank you for the time and money spent on research regarding this topic. After reading all of the articles you provided I was tempted to just cut and paste all of them, and I encourage everyone to read them. I can see your point and this is a great discussion but neither me or you can speak in absolutes. All of these studies talk about the adaption of muscle and soft tissue and how vital it is to the lengthening process. I am not saying that everyone can do 10 cm I am just saying that it is possible. But I noticed that you  say that there is scientific evidence that going over 7.6cm is the elastic limit for muscle tissue yet none of these studies support that. The closest thing that comes to supporting this is the muscle flexion loss in several areas of the body. All of this is true but these side affects are temporary. The sentence bellow comes directly from one of the studies you have listed and sums it up.


The successful outcome of distraction osteogenesis depends in part on the adequate adaptation of the surrounding soft tissue.

This means that every patient is different and it takes the know how of a surgeon and the compliance of a patient to determine the amount of length that is best for them.

It is not fair for you or me to say what is or is not the limit. I am in no way encouraging people to lengthen more I am saying that if they have a goal they can achieve because I have seen it in myself and I have seen it in patients from 5 months after clicking to 3 years after clicking. Please submit evidence of this 7.6 cm limit if possible and please pay attention to see if this limit is permanent.
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2007, 05:56:15 PM »

"Contractures" that Dr. Paley mentions in the article you quoted occurs when an arm or leg is in a bent position for a long time, some of the muscles become shorter, so that the limb cannot fully straighten. Or shortened muscles may hold a joint straight, so it cannot bend. We say the joint has a 'contracture'. Contractures can develop in any joint of the body. Most contractures can be prevented through exercise and other measures. These are true. I can say that I have experienced these contractures during my lenghtening but if you read carefully to what I wrote I said I do alot of physio. All can be prevented and corrected with proper physio, and these "contractures" that Paley speaks about are not permanent.

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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2007, 06:08:04 PM »

"Contractures" that Dr. Paley mentions in the article you quoted occurs when an arm or leg is in a bent position for a long time, some of the muscles become shorter, so that the limb cannot fully straighten. Or shortened muscles may hold a joint straight, so it cannot bend. We say the joint has a 'contracture'. Contractures can develop in any joint of the body. Most contractures can be prevented through exercise and other measures. These are true. I can say that I have experienced these contractures during my lenghtening but if you read carefully to what I wrote I said I do alot of physio. All can be prevented and corrected with proper physio, and these "contractures" that Paley speaks about are not permanent.



Oh dear - you really should have done considerably more research before embarking on your LL...

Contractures can be permanent or temporary. A permanent contracture can occur when the amount or the pace of bone lengthening is not matched by a corresponding extension of the soft tissues.

It can be avoided by exercise during LL, but if it the soft-tissues stabilise in this way, then it will obviously be permanent: http://www.aurorahealthcare.org/yourhealth/healthgate/getcontent.asp?URLhealthgate=%2211932.html%22

Contractures are not the major issue - the key issue is really the elastic limit of muscle fibres. Every piece of matter known to man has an elastic limit - even the toughest metals and minerals.

Stretching any piece of matter beyond its elastic limit fundamentally changes the integrity of that matter - sometimes permanently, sometimes temporarily.

More importantly, you have totally misunderstood the point - 10cm of lengthening is of course people - I've met people who have done it, and Dong Mei actually did 14cm of external lengthening.

The point, which is quite clear, is that it is not advisable.

Not a single doctor - and I know all of them - would recommend this level of lengthening. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean that people should consider it.
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2007, 07:38:54 PM »

I would hope that a person of your position would allow for an open discussion without accusing someone of posting incorrect information. You shouldnt attack someones credibility because you have extra stars by your name. This debate began because you said I posted something that was incorrect so please tell me what I said that was wrong. I just said it is possible to do 10 cm. and that every person is different. I dont encourage or discourage anyone to lengthen this much. I said that everyone is different and it depends on the bodies ability to adapt. The fact is that it can adapt to much longer that 10 cm. it just takes longer for the body. Yes I agree that contractures may occur in fact they are somewhat common, but preventable and treatable with physio therapy like I said.

The link that you sent me was an example of arthritis or carpel tunnel anyway it was not related to LL. Lets keep it simple and keep this discussion to LL only in specific cosmetic. CAN YOU PROVIDE AN EXAMPLE OF PERMANENT CONTRACTURE FOR A COSMETIC LIMB LENGTHENING. Remember I am speaking only about Prof. Betz and Albizzia. If you noticed that is the name of the topic that we are in. You provide me with nothing but theouretical problems. If you want to talk about theoretical problems we can talk about embolisms, anesthesia etc.

I know that you dont recommend a 10 cm gain and that is your opinion nothing more nothing less.

I am glad that you know all of the doctors I think that is great. If you you want to explore this discussion more please email Prof. Betz and ask him his thoughts about lenghening 10 cm in the femurs with albizzia and then post it for everyone to see. Remember I respect your opinion, but you are the one that defied my comment so if you are willing to go there than please support your accusations. Here is a portion of the link you sent me labeled "Prevention." Keep in mind that cosmetic limb lengthening is performed on healthy functioning limbs with no previous diseases.

Prevention
Prevention of contractures depends on the cause. After acute injuries or orthopedic surgery, contractures may be prevented by:

Early movement
Physical therapy
Continuous passive motion (CPM) machines, which mechanically keep joints in motion

Aggressive medical treatment of inflammatory conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis may also delay or prevent contractures
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