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Author Topic: Is The Long Term Damage To The Body From LL Worth It?  (Read 44341 times)
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Tomobogo
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« on: April 29, 2013, 01:18:55 AM »

Hi i was talking about leg lengthening on another forum and this is what the guy told me.  help me refute his argument?

HE SAID: you do realize these extremely invasive and prolonged surgeries will take a lasting toll on your body right? your are likely to age 2-3x faster during the entire process and even after post-op, your body will never recover to 100% original unadulterated state due to the enormous and chronic stress you are placing on your body.  You are paying not only with money but also with your youth and vitality. . . you want four inches and are willingly to compromise yourself for other people. . . 

I SAID: The body is very adaptable, so I'm pretty sure it will return to it's normal state.  These are procedures using the body's natural ability to grow taller.  There are subjects, like I have already mentioned, that have undergone treatment during the 80s that are fine today, if not better.  I don't understand what you mean that I'm compromising my youth and vitality.  If anything, my youth and vitality is being increased by this surgery.  Also, how tall are you?


HIS REPLY : Living with broken bones, wounds and deep lacerations and nails jammed into the body, for a entire year induces titanic stress for the biological body, to deal with the stress, the sympathetic nervous system will perpetuate.  Under normal evolutionarily circumstances the smypathetic nervous system are only meant to be activated in transient time frames to respond to stress by:Acceleration of heart and lung action, Inhibition of stomach and upper-intestinal action to the point where digestion slows down or stops, Constriction of blood vessels in many parts of the body,Inhibition of the lacrimal gland,Dilation of pupil, chronic suppression of the immune system, increased cellular metabolism which raises oxidation free radicals further damaging cells.  Mentally, your brain will release stress related neurotransmitters acetylcholine, Norepinephrine that will constantly act on neural receptors and eventually burn out burden the central nervous system.  The hormone Adrenaline will be continuously released by the liver(I'm not even going to type of negative effects of chronic adrenaline exposure). . . your basically putting your body into over drive for an entire year, yes the body can heal and adapt AT A CERTAIN RATE TO A CERTAIN MAGNITUDE OF STIMULUS, but surgically invasive and prolonged operations will kick the body into hyper drive and for an entire year, permanent damage is inevitable.  essentially your are forcing your body to work extra hard for a long time, which causes it to age at a increased rate, this is what i meant by compromising your youth and vitality.

I also like to add that Cortisol is also a stress hormone that the body produces when it is under stress.  Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like those associated with chronic stress) have negative effects, such as: Impaired cognitive performance, Suppressed thyroid function, Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia, Decreased bone density, Decrease in muscle tissue, Higher blood pressure, Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences, Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with heart attacks, strokes, the development of metabolic syndrome, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), so have fun with that buddy. 

Your body is going to pay a price for all that damage you are going to do it.
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kusop
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 08:59:35 AM »

Tombogo, may I know which forum this is? im really curious, i didt know there existed other LL forums.
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shakylegs
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 09:02:25 AM »

Ha ha.. that's interesting. So is there data to prove all this happens when someone does LL? Does this person have medical or scientific data on experiments with past LL patients to show that all this has happened to them? So what about people who actually have these operations and apparatus' installed in their bodies from results of accidents or deformities, do they all suffer these consequences? I don't think so.
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 11:04:06 AM »

lol  Grin
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SysOp
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 11:37:01 AM »

Tombogo, here are a few points to consider:

1. I'm sure the discussion you were having was on a bodybuilding forum or a forum for short men, not an LL forum. The person you were debating with seems only able to focus on the battle of LL and not the war that is the whole life of a person.

2. While it is true that LL is traumatic to the body, it is over in a relatively short period of time considering the whole lifespan of a person. It is much more traumatic to the body to live 30, 40, or 50 years unhappy with yourself and your life because you are not who and what you want to be. There are many types of stress that can damage the mind and body. A short period of physical stress on the body is much less damaging than a lifetime of mental stress.
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Padfreak101
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 11:59:26 AM »

A short period of physical stress on the body is much less damaging than a lifetime of mental stress.

Now theres a quote for the ages !!
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upinthesky
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 01:20:55 PM »

My physiotherapist also warned me about the "cortisol effect" you're talking about here, so I really think you have a legit point, Tombogo. It's not going to stop me from doing LL, but I'll try asking her what she thinks about it via e-mail.
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Starting Height: 165 cm
Final Height: 172 cm

Date of Surgery: January 6th, 2014
Started Lengthening: January 11th, 2014
Started Walking Again: March 21st, 2014
From Surgery to Walking: 75 days

Lengthened 7 cm with Dr.Muharrem Inan in Istanbul, Turkey with the Fitbone Internal Method.
a1_z1
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 02:12:24 PM »

here is one other thing that induces massive stress that can lead to many negative things : Living the life you do not really want to live.
If you really think this is bad - just do not do it. Simple,
I figure if it was that dangerous doctors would not even allow it. So to a certain degree it is ok and that is why it is allowed. extreme sports, working day and night to make millions is all stressful to you in many ways but people still do it.
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OneSevenOne
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 03:38:41 PM »

Tombogo, I'm not sure that Captain America's diary is the right place to discuss this, but here are a few points to consider:

1. I'm sure the discussion you were having was on a bodybuilding forum or a forum for short men, not an LL forum. The person you were debating with seems only able to focus on the battle of LL and not the war that is the whole life of a person.

2. While it is true that LL is traumatic to the body, it is over in a relatively short period of time considering the whole lifespan of a person. It is much more traumatic to the body to live 30, 40, or 50 years unhappy with yourself and your life because you are not who and what you want to be. There are many types of stress that can damage the mind and body. A short period of physical stress on the body is much less damaging than a lifetime of mental stress.

Sysop is like the warm cuddle of your mum when you were younger and hurt your knee!  Smiley

Plus let's consider all the other things that stress the body to hell and back too:

1.  Smoking
2.  Drinking
3.  Stress (Family and Work)
4.  Lack of Sleep
5.  Refined sugars/shi* diet
6.  UV/Pollution

All of the above many people will self inflict on themselves for zero benefit long term.

I do kind of see what the guy is saying but I would like to know his background and sources of this.

My friend is training to be an anesthetist (well I've not spoken to him in close to 3 years actually) but he was telling me that as soon as blood hits anything foreign there is an inflammatory response, so in operations you need drugs to count that.  No doubt a metal rod in your leg causes a big immune response and it would be interesting to see what medical professionals say about this in terms of long term health.  However there are many people who live with foreign things in their body/bones or fake tits, etc.

I suppose one way to test the theory is get full blood analysis before, during and after LL.

I would not mind being the guy to do this either.
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"The future doesn’t belong to the fainthearted; it belongs to the brave."

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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 06:52:05 PM »

Sysop is like the warm cuddle of your mum when you were younger and hurt your knee!  Smiley

I am not trying to be warm and cuddly. I want to present the truth about the pain and difficulty of LL at the same time I'm presenting the benefits I have seen in my own life. Smiley
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Stadiometer
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 07:22:57 PM »


HIS REPLY : Living with broken bones, wounds and deep lacerations and nails jammed into the body, for a entire year induces titanic stress for the biological body, to deal with the stress, the sympathetic nervous system will perpetuate.  Under normal evolutionarily circumstances the smypathetic nervous system are only meant to be activated in transient time frames to respond to stress by:Acceleration of heart and lung action, Inhibition of stomach and upper-intestinal action to the point where digestion slows down or stops, Constriction of blood vessels in many parts of the body,Inhibition of the lacrimal gland,Dilation of pupil, chronic suppression of the immune system, increased cellular metabolism which raises oxidation free radicals further damaging cells.  Mentally, your brain will release stress related neurotransmitters acetylcholine, Norepinephrine that will constantly act on neural receptors and eventually burn out burden the central nervous system.  The hormone Adrenaline will be continuously released by the liver(I'm not even going to type of negative effects of chronic adrenaline exposure). . . your basically putting your body into over drive for an entire year, yes the body can heal and adapt AT A CERTAIN RATE TO A CERTAIN MAGNITUDE OF STIMULUS, but surgically invasive and prolonged operations will kick the body into hyper drive and for an entire year, permanent damage is inevitable.  essentially your are forcing your body to work extra hard for a long time, which causes it to age at a increased rate, this is what i meant by compromising your youth and vitality.

I also like to add that Cortisol is also a stress hormone that the body produces when it is under stress.  Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like those associated with chronic stress) have negative effects, such as: Impaired cognitive performance, Suppressed thyroid function, Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia, Decreased bone density, Decrease in muscle tissue, Higher blood pressure, Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences, Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with heart attacks, strokes, the development of metabolic syndrome, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), so have fun with that buddy. 


The circumstance which you are describing is the human bodies involuntary response to extreme life threatening situations.  Example: You are swimming in the ocean and confront a shark.  You are walking down the street and someone puts a gun to your head.

These involuntary response mechanisms are short lived and serve an evolutionary purpose which modern day humans rarely encounter.  During limb lengthening the body is not constantly under these hyper metabolic conditions.
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U.S.A. Vital and Health Statistics (October 2012)
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_252.pdf

U.S.A. Male
163.6(cm)05% 171.2(cm)25% 176.3(cm)50%  
181.7(cm)75% 185.8(cm)90% 188.3(cm)95%

U.S.A. Female
152.0(cm)05% 158.1(cm)25% 162.9(cm)50%
167.6(cm)75% 171.8(cm)90% 175.1(cm)95%
OneSevenOne
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 08:32:24 PM »

I am not trying to be warm and cuddly. I want to present the truth about the pain and difficulty of LL at the same time I'm presenting the benefits I have seen in my own life. Smiley

Yeah I know bro, but at the same time a bit of optimism never hurt!
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"The future doesn’t belong to the fainthearted; it belongs to the brave."

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Mordred
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2013, 09:44:01 PM »

Things to consider when doing LL: (1) pain and trauma - the unparalleled experience of having your legs cut open will be traumatic. What effect will this trauma have on your nerves, body, and brain in the long-term? Will this kind of stress cause premature aging (probably, considering the loss of stem cells)? How will your body react to rods being stuck into your body?
                                                       (2) long-term immobility - being unable to move for long periods of time increases the chance of blood clots. http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/health/blood-clot-danger-increases-with-immobility-494525/. What will long-term immobility have on overall physical health?

A lot of people are implying that after you have LL, you will not release as much cortisol. For all we know, cortisol-release is not height dependent. Nothing shows that tall people release less cortisol than short people. I am short compared to my peers, but I have never felt chronic stress, so I am pretty sure my cortisol levels have been pretty low for a while.

Rather than being dependent on height or physical attractiveness, stress coping (which determines cortisol release) seems to be dependent on what genes you have for handling dopamine: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/magazine/why-can-some-kids-handle-pressure-while-others-fall-apart.html?pagewanted=all
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callawaycoolctu
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2013, 11:02:21 PM »

Things to consider when doing LL: (1) pain and trauma - the unparalleled experience of having your legs cut open will be traumatic. What effect will this trauma have on your nerves, body, and brain in the long-term? Will this kind of stress cause premature aging (probably, considering the loss of stem cells)? How will your body react to rods being stuck into your body?
                                                       (2) long-term immobility - being unable to move for long periods of time increases the chance of blood clots. http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/health/blood-clot-danger-increases-with-immobility-494525/. What will long-term immobility have on overall physical health?

A lot of people are implying that after you have LL, you will not release as much cortisol. For all we know, cortisol-release is not height dependent. Nothing shows that tall people release less cortisol than short people. I am short compared to my peers, but I have never felt chronic stress, so I am pretty sure my cortisol levels have been pretty low for a while.

Rather than being dependent on height or physical attractiveness, stress coping (which determines cortisol release) seems to be dependent on what genes you have for handling dopamine: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/magazine/why-can-some-kids-handle-pressure-while-others-fall-apart.html?pagewanted=all


Could you explain why one would loose stem cells.  I could be totally wrong on this and please correct me if I'm wrong but I tried to do some research and stem cells replicate themselves.  The reason you start to age and not have as many is because as one gets older the stem cells do not replicate themselves as fast.  So if what I'm saying is true then you should replenish your stem cells if your young.  But if anyone knows more about this then please correct me if I'm wrong
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Mordred
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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 11:28:40 PM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell

We have only a limited number of stem cells, a number which gets smaller and smaller as we age (they either die or lose the ability to differentiate). Whenever you get injured, you use your stem cells (which differentiate into the tissue being repaired) to repair the injury. I have no idea how much of your stem cells will be used up to repair your wounded legs, but it's probably a lot more than what's used on a papercut. However, there has been research in stem cells, and stem cell treatments will likely be available in the next decade (stem cell treatments are already available for leukemia), so this probably wouldn't be that much of a problem. I'd be more concerned about the pain and trauma from LL.

Interestingly, more research in stem cells will expand the potential alternatives to LL, such as torso lengthening. Stem cell treatments offer the ability to heal spinal cord injuries; we could find a way to lengthen our spine, and use stem cells to heal the injury afterwards. This is just speculation of course.
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pinpan
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2013, 11:30:11 PM »

i was really depressed and i was thinking about my height all the time.

life was a hell and all i wanted was this operation.

now i look myself in the mirror and i feel great. iam  complex free , i love my new image.

of course i take some medicines to recover even after almost two years. my hair turned gray as well and i look older. i had major depression i hate going out.

ll worth it... Cool
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Mordred
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2013, 11:33:11 PM »

And more on the cortisol problem. Anyone can reduce cortisol levels, and it's easy to do it without LL. What causes high cortisol levels? Stress. How to reduce stress? Meditation is one. Exercise is another great one. Taking a walk in nature has also been found to lower stress: http://dirt.asla.org/2011/09/08/research-shows-nature-helps-with-stress/ . These are only some of the many ways of stress reduction in your life.
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callawaycoolctu
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2013, 02:46:43 AM »

i was really depressed and i was thinking about my height all the time.

life was a hell and all i wanted was this operation.

now i look myself in the mirror and i feel great. iam  complex free , i love my new image.

of course i take some medicines to recover even after almost two years. my hair turned gray as well and i look older. i had major depression i hate going out.

ll worth it... Cool

so you like that your taller but you ended up getting gray hair and you look a lot older.  You hate going out but you love LL.  I confused on your statement
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callawaycoolctu
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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2013, 02:54:38 AM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell

We have only a limited number of stem cells, a number which gets smaller and smaller as we age (they either die or lose the ability to differentiate). Whenever you get injured, you use your stem cells (which differentiate into the tissue being repaired) to repair the injury. I have no idea how much of your stem cells will be used up to repair your wounded legs, but it's probably a lot more than what's used on a papercut. However, there has been research in stem cells, and stem cell treatments will likely be available in the next decade (stem cell treatments are already available for leukemia), so this probably wouldn't be that much of a problem. I'd be more concerned about the pain and trauma from LL.

Interestingly, more research in stem cells will expand the potential alternatives to LL, such as torso lengthening. Stem cell treatments offer the ability to heal spinal cord injuries; we could find a way to lengthen our spine, and use stem cells to heal the injury afterwards. This is just speculation of course.


I found the part where they decline with age but I can't find the part where we only have a limited amount.  Which section is it in the Wikipedia article?

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callawaycoolctu
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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2013, 02:56:16 AM »

I can't find it in the Wikipedia article where it says that we only have a certain number of stem cells.  I'm sure I just over read it.  I just want to see where it is sourced from because I don't always trust Wikipedia.  Which section is the part that we only have a limited amount found on Wikipedia?
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