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Author Topic: Is The Long Term Damage To The Body From LL Worth It?  (Read 44345 times)
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Colossal-Cat
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« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2014, 05:23:33 AM »

You can overcome pain, its the recuperation time and will/energy required to recover that is the common difficulty - but by then, its necessity.

Does your height bother you or are you aiming for an ideal you have currently? For a lot of people that go through with it (Averaging at 5'7"), height is or has been, a daily mental battle or thing to contend with.
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duncangunit
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« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2014, 07:15:11 PM »

I remember 2 years ago when I was back home, I noticed my grandfather was walking much slower than he used to. He started to hear less, need people to yell in his ear, and forget many things...including my name. My grandfather used to be a soldier and used to be admired by many ladies (according to my grandmother), and he has been quite an active old man until 2 years old. Now my mother and her siblings are already discussing what would happen when my grandfather passes away.

It really makes me think, if we will all get to that moment when our bodies start to fail (and eventually r.i.p), then what's the point of having a 100% perfectly atheletic body vs. a 90% one for a few more years? Or an 80% one?

I am probably biased, because a few years ago I stretched my back muscle, and I have never been as athletic as before. However, I also don't feel I am losing much because of it. I probably would have never made it to national sports, and even if I can would I want to? Most sports player can only play for a few years before "retiring". Now I have an office job so besides hitting the gym, which I can definitely control how much weight to put on myself, I don't find that I need to be 100% fit. There are so many other things I am giving up because of LL, and I am sure many other LL prospects are giving those things up too (certain friends, family time, opportunity costs etc). So to me, it seems like losing some power to my legs because of LL is one of the less important among the other things I am giving up.
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a1_z1
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« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2014, 08:17:40 PM »

I remember 2 years ago when I was back home, I noticed my grandfather was walking much slower than he used to. He started to hear less, need people to yell in his ear, and forget many things...including my name. My grandfather used to be a soldier and used to be admired by many ladies (according to my grandmother), and he has been quite an active old man until 2 years old. Now my mother and her siblings are already discussing what would happen when my grandfather passes away.

It really makes me think, if we will all get to that moment when our bodies start to fail (and eventually r.i.p), then what's the point of having a 100% perfectly atheletic body vs. a 90% one for a few more years? Or an 80% one?

I am probably biased, because a few years ago I stretched my back muscle, and I have never been as athletic as before. However, I also don't feel I am losing much because of it. I probably would have never made it to national sports, and even if I can would I want to? Most sports player can only play for a few years before "retiring". Now I have an office job so besides hitting the gym, which I can definitely control how much weight to put on myself, I don't find that I need to be 100% fit. There are so many other things I am giving up because of LL, and I am sure many other LL prospects are giving those things up too (certain friends, family time, opportunity costs etc). So to me, it seems like losing some power to my legs because of LL is one of the less important among the other things I am giving up.

Spot on. The best bodies and the greatest talents dont last. Of course that does not mean you should cut your bones to get taller but I think after a certain age, if you are not a professional athlete than better think how you will be training when you are in your 40s and than 50s etc.
I just came back from the gym and I am in my 40s (early) and look like in my 30s and have a body of a 25 year old and I am telling you I will not be doing hard heavy squats and dead-lifts for many more years (maybe even less). That is how hip replacements and other issues pop up quicker.
LL might speed up my eventual loss in athletic ability but it will give me height that I otherwise will never have.
Plus after years of training I know how to maintain most of my look. Simple to me !
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MAN-OF-STEEL
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« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2014, 12:18:01 PM »

Agreed
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« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2014, 06:21:24 PM »

Quote from: Tomobogo link=topic=6080. msg80287#msg80287 date=1367198335
Hi i was talking about leg lengthening on another forum and this is what the guy told me.   help me refute his argument?

HE SAID: you do realize these extremely invasive and prolonged surgeries will take a lasting toll on your body right? your are likely to age 2-3x faster during the entire process and even after post-op, your body will never recover to 100% original unadulterated state due to the enormous and chronic stress you are placing on your body.   You are paying not only with money but also with your youth and vitality.  .  .  you want four inches and are willingly to compromise yourself for other people.  .  .  

I SAID: The body is very adaptable, so I'm pretty sure it will return to it's normal state.   These are procedures using the body's natural ability to grow taller.   There are subjects, like I have already mentioned, that have undergone treatment during the 80s that are fine today, if not better.   I don't understand what you mean that I'm compromising my youth and vitality.   If anything, my youth and vitality is being increased by this surgery.   Also, how tall are you?


HIS REPLY : Living with broken bones, wounds and deep lacerations and nails jammed into the body, for a entire year induces titanic stress for the biological body, to deal with the stress, the sympathetic nervous system will perpetuate.   Under normal evolutionarily circumstances the smypathetic nervous system are only meant to be activated in transient time frames to respond to stress by:Acceleration of heart and lung action, Inhibition of stomach and upper-intestinal action to the point where digestion slows down or stops, Constriction of blood vessels in many parts of the body,Inhibition of the lacrimal gland,Dilation of pupil, chronic suppression of the immune system, increased cellular metabolism which raises oxidation free radicals further damaging cells.   Mentally, your brain will release stress related neurotransmitters acetylcholine, Norepinephrine that will constantly act on neural receptors and eventually burn out burden the central nervous system.   The hormone Adrenaline will be continuously released by the liver(I'm not even going to type of negative effects of chronic adrenaline exposure).  .  .  your basically putting your body into over drive for an entire year, yes the body can heal and adapt AT A CERTAIN RATE TO A CERTAIN MAGNITUDE OF STIMULUS, but surgically invasive and prolonged operations will kick the body into hyper drive and for an entire year, permanent damage is inevitable.   essentially your are forcing your body to work extra hard for a long time, which causes it to age at a increased rate, this is what i meant by compromising your youth and vitality. 

I also like to add that Cortisol is also a stress hormone that the body produces when it is under stress.   Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like those associated with chronic stress) have negative effects, such as: Impaired cognitive performance, Suppressed thyroid function, Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia, Decreased bone density, Decrease in muscle tissue, Higher blood pressure, Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences, Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with heart attacks, strokes, the development of metabolic syndrome, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), so have fun with that buddy.  

Your body is going to pay a price for all that damage you are going to do it. 


Short answer: he is full of shi*.

Longer answer: There are no studies to suggest that long-term complications are a common result from leg lengthening, let alone universal.  The procedure has been done on thousands (perhaps tens-of-thousands) for over fifty-years, and nearly everyone whom lengthens at a safe rate, follows the doctor's suggestions, and spends his or her time actively-rehabilitating in the gym will be the same as before when all is said and done.  Of course, it will take some time (perhaps not too long given muscle memory) to regain athletic ability, but that loss of ability is not permanent.
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169 cm tall (5'7); ready to fight my way to 185 cm!
ReadRothbard
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« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2014, 06:29:37 PM »

I remember 2 years ago when I was back home, I noticed my grandfather was walking much slower than he used to. He started to hear less, need people to yell in his ear, and forget many things...including my name. My grandfather used to be a soldier and used to be admired by many ladies (according to my grandmother), and he has been quite an active old man until 2 years old. Now my mother and her siblings are already discussing what would happen when my grandfather passes away.

It really makes me think, if we will all get to that moment when our bodies start to fail (and eventually r.i.p), then what's the point of having a 100% perfectly atheletic body vs. a 90% one for a few more years? Or an 80% one?

I am probably biased, because a few years ago I stretched my back muscle, and I have never been as athletic as before. However, I also don't feel I am losing much because of it. I probably would have never made it to national sports, and even if I can would I want to? Most sports player can only play for a few years before "retiring". Now I have an office job so besides hitting the gym, which I can definitely control how much weight to put on myself, I don't find that I need to be 100% fit. There are so many other things I am giving up because of LL, and I am sure many other LL prospects are giving those things up too (certain friends, family time, opportunity costs etc). So to me, it seems like losing some power to my legs because of LL is one of the less important among the other things I am giving up.

Here is some good news: ageing will likely be cured within the next 15-30 years. Professor Aubrey de Grey, alma mater Cambridge, thinks it will be cured by 2029, and there is a legion of other scientists and businessmen called the Manhattan Beach Project who are working to cure it by 2030. Given the breakthroughs in the discovery of telomerase's ability to repair cells and telomeres, and well as other efforts to cleans cells of bad DNA, it's very plausible that there will be a cure for ageing (as well as an ability to reverse it) within two decades--definitely by 2050. So, yeah, you'll be able to keep your new body.
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169 cm tall (5'7); ready to fight my way to 185 cm!
Eshgham
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« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2014, 08:42:17 PM »

This is the most important question re: LL
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ReadRothbard
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« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2014, 02:51:59 AM »

This is the most important question re: LL

What?
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169 cm tall (5'7); ready to fight my way to 185 cm!
Camoflazh9306
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Waiting....


« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2014, 07:19:39 PM »

Totally worth it, if everything goes fine that is. Better than living and growing old as a 5'6'' male. If you get a chance to change something as serious as this, go for it and don't listen to anyone except for the professionals (Doctors), and even still, sometimes you know best.
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ReadRothbard
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« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2014, 02:58:41 AM »

Totally worth it, if everything goes fine that is. Better than living and growing old as a 5'6'' male. If you get a chance to change something as serious as this, go for it and don't listen to anyone except for the professionals (Doctors), and even still, sometimes you know best.

Agreed!
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GrowthSpurt
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« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2014, 09:42:41 PM »

Quote from: Tomobogo link=topic=6080. msg80287#msg80287 date=1367198335
Hi i was talking about leg lengthening on another forum and this is what the guy told me.   help me refute his argument?


I also like to add that Cortisol is also a stress hormone that the body produces when it is under stress.   Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like those associated with chronic stress) have negative effects, such as: Impaired cognitive performance, Suppressed thyroid function, Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia, Decreased bone density, Decrease in muscle tissue, Higher blood pressure, Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences, Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with heart attacks, strokes, the development of metabolic syndrome, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), so have fun with that buddy.  

Your body is going to pay a price for all that damage you are going to do it. 


I don't know why this person you were speaking to behaves as if LL surgery is the only source of cortisol production.  There are many: stress at work and in traffic are too examples.  In fact, I would venture to say that cortisol production in surgery would be more physiological than many of the stressors of modern life.
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Iwannabetallerplease91
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:)


« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2015, 05:47:46 AM »

I've heard that, but stress from work or school can cause cortisone as well as LL  :-\
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siguy745
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« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2015, 03:20:13 PM »

What exactly is the source of this belief?

It's the stretching of your soft tissues from lengthening that has the potential to cause arthritis down the road, not the initial trauma from the surgery.

Hi Sysop,
I thought the arthritis had to do with the weakening of the bones?  could you please tell how stretching the soft tissues has to do with the potential cause to arthritis?  I don't know much about arthritis....
thank u!
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zeo
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« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2015, 12:52:34 AM »

It's the stretching of your soft tissues from lengthening that has the potential to cause arthritis down the road, not the initial trauma from the surgery.

That is something that I have been asking for a long time. Whether it was the initial trauma that causes the longterm complications or the stretching of soft tissue.

So the question is that if hypothetically someone wanted 7cm exactly (no more no less). If money, time, and pain were not a factor, they would be better off in the long term doing 2 surgeries of 3.5 cm each rather than one 7cm surgery? (Lets say for the sake of argument they have unlimited time, infinite money and feel no pain post surgery)
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« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2015, 12:59:27 AM »

That is something that I have been asking for a long time. Whether it was the initial trauma that causes the longterm complications or the stretching of soft tissue.

So the question is that if hypothetically someone wanted 7cm exactly (no more no less). If money, time, and pain were not a factor, they would be better off in the long term doing 2 surgeries of 3.5 cm each rather than one 7cm surgery? (Lets say for the sake of argument they have unlimited time, infinite money and feel no pain post surgery)

It is not the same for every body.

Some people who have flexible tendons-musccles can handle 7cm without much stretching in ligaments so they probably won't have problems like arthritis.
Others that have too stiff tendons would have better done 2 surgeries in an ideal situations.
But all these if everything goes fine, because with every new surgery there are always the risks of infenctions, malunions etc.

So, as Sysop said, the bone break does not cause any premature arthritis, the lengthening and the stretching does.
So, the best to do is one surgery with a wise amount of lengthening.
If the lengthening you want is a little more than that, then maybe it is worth the risk from doing another one surgery.
But if the lengthening someone wants are crazy amounts like 10cm, then 2 surgeries is the ONLY option. In that case you have the risks of every new surgery, but if everything goes fine, it would be perfect.
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vial6111
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« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2015, 01:07:21 PM »

Quote from: Tomobogo link=topic=6080. msg80287#msg80287 date=1367198335
Hi i was talking about leg lengthening on another forum and this is what the guy told me.   help me refute his argument?

HE SAID: you do realize these extremely invasive and prolonged surgeries will take a lasting toll on your body right? your are likely to age 2-3x faster during the entire process and even after post-op, your body will never recover to 100% original unadulterated state due to the enormous and chronic stress you are placing on your body.   You are paying not only with money but also with your youth and vitality.  .  .  you want four inches and are willingly to compromise yourself for other people.  .  .  

I SAID: The body is very adaptable, so I'm pretty sure it will return to it's normal state.   These are procedures using the body's natural ability to grow taller.   There are subjects, like I have already mentioned, that have undergone treatment during the 80s that are fine today, if not better.   I don't understand what you mean that I'm compromising my youth and vitality.   If anything, my youth and vitality is being increased by this surgery.   Also, how tall are you?


HIS REPLY : Living with broken bones, wounds and deep lacerations and nails jammed into the body, for a entire year induces titanic stress for the biological body, to deal with the stress, the sympathetic nervous system will perpetuate.   Under normal evolutionarily circumstances the smypathetic nervous system are only meant to be activated in transient time frames to respond to stress by:Acceleration of heart and lung action, Inhibition of stomach and upper-intestinal action to the point where digestion slows down or stops, Constriction of blood vessels in many parts of the body,Inhibition of the lacrimal gland,Dilation of pupil, chronic suppression of the immune system, increased cellular metabolism which raises oxidation free radicals further damaging cells.   Mentally, your brain will release stress related neurotransmitters acetylcholine, Norepinephrine that will constantly act on neural receptors and eventually burn out burden the central nervous system.   The hormone Adrenaline will be continuously released by the liver(I'm not even going to type of negative effects of chronic adrenaline exposure).  .  .  your basically putting your body into over drive for an entire year, yes the body can heal and adapt AT A CERTAIN RATE TO A CERTAIN MAGNITUDE OF STIMULUS, but surgically invasive and prolonged operations will kick the body into hyper drive and for an entire year, permanent damage is inevitable.   essentially your are forcing your body to work extra hard for a long time, which causes it to age at a increased rate, this is what i meant by compromising your youth and vitality. 

I also like to add that Cortisol is also a stress hormone that the body produces when it is under stress.   Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like those associated with chronic stress) have negative effects, such as: Impaired cognitive performance, Suppressed thyroid function, Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia, Decreased bone density, Decrease in muscle tissue, Higher blood pressure, Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences, Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with heart attacks, strokes, the development of metabolic syndrome, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), so have fun with that buddy.  

Your body is going to pay a price for all that damage you are going to do it. 


It would be helpful if some physician could sort this out.  I'm sure there have been thousands of papers written concerning long term effects of invasive surgery of this kind.
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Hamoodi
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« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2015, 03:07:57 AM »

Short answer: he is full of shi*.

Longer answer: There are no studies to suggest that long-term complications are a common result from leg lengthening, let alone universal.  The procedure has been done on thousands (perhaps tens-of-thousands) for over fifty-years, and nearly everyone whom lengthens at a safe rate, follows the doctor's suggestions, and spends his or her time actively-rehabilitating in the gym will be the same as before when all is said and done.  Of course, it will take some time (perhaps not too long given muscle memory) to regain athletic ability, but that loss of ability is not permanent.


[/ The hormone Adrenaline will be continuously released by the liver(I'm not even going to type of negative effects of chronic adrenaline exposure).  .  .  quote]

I never read in my medical school that liver is screating adrenaline. It's screated from supra-renal glands. beside most of the information mentioned are irrelevant to LL.
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siguy745
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« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2015, 07:30:04 PM »

this site is good for geting a glimpse of personal journies of the ller's experience doing ll.  when it comes to medical facts, it's best to research on one's own and do not take anything u read here as the factual truth as some people state things without confirming for sure.
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Hamoodi
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« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2015, 03:17:49 AM »

this site is good for geting a glimpse of personal journies of the ller's experience doing ll.  when it comes to medical facts, it's best to research on one's own and do not take anything u read here as the factual truth as some people state things without confirming for sure.

I strongly agree with you Siguy Smiley

Hamoodi
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wish177
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« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2015, 03:31:46 PM »

Hi i was talking about leg lengthening on another forum and this is what the guy told me.  help me refute his argument?

HE SAID: you do realize these extremely invasive and prolonged surgeries will take a lasting toll on your body right? your are likely to age 2-3x faster during the entire process and even after post-op, your body will never recover to 100% original unadulterated state due to the enormous and chronic stress you are placing on your body.  You are paying not only with money but also with your youth and vitality. . . you want four inches and are willingly to compromise yourself for other people. . . 

I SAID: The body is very adaptable, so I'm pretty sure it will return to it's normal state.  These are procedures using the body's natural ability to grow taller.  There are subjects, like I have already mentioned, that have undergone treatment during the 80s that are fine today, if not better.  I don't understand what you mean that I'm compromising my youth and vitality.  If anything, my youth and vitality is being increased by this surgery.  Also, how tall are you?


HIS REPLY : Living with broken bones, wounds and deep lacerations and nails jammed into the body, for a entire year induces titanic stress for the biological body, to deal with the stress, the sympathetic nervous system will perpetuate.  Under normal evolutionarily circumstances the smypathetic nervous system are only meant to be activated in transient time frames to respond to stress by:Acceleration of heart and lung action, Inhibition of stomach and upper-intestinal action to the point where digestion slows down or stops, Constriction of blood vessels in many parts of the body,Inhibition of the lacrimal gland,Dilation of pupil, chronic suppression of the immune system, increased cellular metabolism which raises oxidation free radicals further damaging cells.  Mentally, your brain will release stress related neurotransmitters acetylcholine, Norepinephrine that will constantly act on neural receptors and eventually burn out burden the central nervous system.  The hormone Adrenaline will be continuously released by the liver(I'm not even going to type of negative effects of chronic adrenaline exposure). . . your basically putting your body into over drive for an entire year, yes the body can heal and adapt AT A CERTAIN RATE TO A CERTAIN MAGNITUDE OF STIMULUS, but surgically invasive and prolonged operations will kick the body into hyper drive and for an entire year, permanent damage is inevitable.  essentially your are forcing your body to work extra hard for a long time, which causes it to age at a increased rate, this is what i meant by compromising your youth and vitality.

I also like to add that Cortisol is also a stress hormone that the body produces when it is under stress.  Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like those associated with chronic stress) have negative effects, such as: Impaired cognitive performance, Suppressed thyroid function, Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia, Decreased bone density, Decrease in muscle tissue, Higher blood pressure, Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences, Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with heart attacks, strokes, the development of metabolic syndrome, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), so have fun with that buddy. 

Your body is going to pay a price for all that damage you are going to do it.

Many people have broken something in their lifes, and there is non lang term damage, however, you said long term, not permanently damage.
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